1986 Four Winns Freedom 160 Restore need advice!!

[Lost in Translation]

So I have been lurking around and reading through some posts here and figured I would reach out for some knowledge. I was given a 1986 Four Winns Freedom 160 and the floor, transom and stringers were rotted out. I have ripped everything out and will be replacing the stringers with 3/4 inch wood and the transom with plywood in the next couple days. I can provide some pictures in the future but at this stage I am looking to make a purchase of glass, resin, foam and etc. and want some opinions on the quantity and prices I have found just to get this topic started. Also if you see anything I have forgotten. See below any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. CUPS -- Sleeve of 25 2.5 Quart cups -- CON-MM080SL $27.50
CUPS -- for two Quart -- CON-MM032 $1.40

STIR STICKS -- Pack of 50 -- GLV-PS050 $3.95
FOAM -- 80 LB Kit - 40 Cubic Feet -- FOAM-0280 $264.00
EPOXY MED -- 5 Gallon resin 1.6 Gallon hardener -- EPOX-635316 $290.00
PUMPS FOR EPOXY 3-1 Ratio Pumps -- EPX-P31 $6.95 / Set of 2
EPOXY GLUE -- Gallon Kit (1/2 Gal + 1/2 Gal) -- FASC-11010 $52.00
Glass -- 7.5 OZ fiberglass cloth 50? wide 50 yards -- FG-C0750 $282.50

Glass -- 8.7 OZ fiberglass cloth tapes 4? wide 50 yards -- FG-C04Y $27.60
Glass -- DBM 1708 fiberglass roving 50? wide 6 yards -- FG-170850 $51.00

Total $1,007.50

 

[zool]

Triple post! lol....iboats server is having one of its freakouts again

 

[zool]

double post

 

[zool]

Hello lost, welcome to drydock..

Just looking at your list, I would skip the 1708 with epoxy, and just order the 17oz biaxial cloth, without the mat backing...its not needed and will just soak up your resin.

You can also skip the epoxy glue kit, and just use some cabosil for the gluing, you will need some for filleting anyway.

You can also skip the 8.7 tape, and cut strips from either the 7.5 or the 17oz. You can also reduce the amount of 7.5, and increase the amount of 17oz biaxial cloth...

The 17oz should be your main cloth.

You basically need:

small and large cups (graduated are best)
stir sticks if u want, I just use whatever..
Foam (closed cell)
Pumps if u want, but the graduated cups work just fine by themselves.
some lighter cloth like 7.5 or 8.9 or whatever for stringer caps...5 yards is more than enough...prolly less
the majority of your cloth should be 17oz biaxial cloth.
resin kits
Cabosil
PPE

That should rediuce your overall cost and is more than adequate for a 16

 

[Lost in Translation]

Sorry about the double/triple post IBOATS was freezing on me.

Zool,

Thanks for the information. I see you say to use 17 oz on everything but I am a bit confused because I have read you need to do a couple of layers and if I was 17 oz on everything it would be pretty thick. From what I have found they say to put around 3 layers each one progressively wider on the stringers. I was going to use the 1708 for this and the 17 oz for my transom. My process is listed below on what I was going to do. Please correct me if I am wrong on anything or if there is a better way of doing things. THANKS FOR THE HELP AND YOUR TIME/KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!

1 - Make new transom and prep for installation. Glue or PB the new transom in. Once in fillet the edges and use my tape around the edges and then go over it with 17 oz (1 layer). Next go over it with a layer of 7.5 oz.

2 - Make new stringers and glue in. Once set filleti the edges and wrap the stringers with 1708 roughly 3 inch over hang on each side. Next wrap again with 4 inch over hang on each side. Next wrap again with 6 in over hang on each side.

3 - Pour my foam and once dry level off

4 - Make new flooring and prep for installation. Install flooring and use screws in the flooring ( fill screw holes with epoxy to seal). Once flooring is in fillet the edges and use chop strand and resin to seal. Then go around the edges with tape and seal.

5 - Install new carpet

6 - install seats and other stuff

7 - Go out on the water and enjoy a cigar while cruising around

 

[zool]

Lost, You can use the lighter cloth, or a mixture of the 2. Regardless of the schedule you choose, the epoxy lams on a 16'er will be way stronger then the original poly/woven it came with. My main point was that the 1708 you plan to use, is generally used with polyester resin, because it has styrene in it, which dissolves the .08 mat stitched to the 17oz cloth. Polyester resin needs the mat for strength and binding. Epoxy doesn't. If you use 1708 with the epoxy, it will be way thicker than the same amount of 17oz biaxial cloth and use more resin.

The lighter 7.5 cloth will be easier to cap your stringers with...

You can use any combination if u like, I would just recommend for the stringers:

One layer of 17oz cloth from the top of the stringer, out 4 inches along the hull bottom, then a second layer of 17oz from the top again, but out 8 inches across the hull bottom. Then 2 layers of the 7.5 over the top, and down the sides of the stringer...done.

For the transom, you can use a 12" strip of 17oz, 6" over the transom edge, and the hull sides and bottom, then a second tabbing of 17oz, 20" wide, 10" over the transom and the hull sides/bottom. You can fill in the remainder of the transom center with 2 layers of 17, or 3-4 layers of 7.5....the lighter cloth is a lot easier to wet out over that large an area.

The bottom line is, yes, multiple layers of thinner cloth, is slightly stronger than less layers of thicker cloth, but it's redundant in a boat that size. You will have past the point of diminishing returns.

You can substitute any of that schedule with 7.5, just use 2 layers of 7.5 in place of 1 layer of 17oz.

Then I do recommend the cigar afterwards!

 

[Lost in Translation]

Zool,

Thanks for the information... I am a bit away from needed everything but as we know the wife holds the checkbook and wants me to figure out how much I am looking at. I have come with 2G-2.5G for my restore.

For right now I have all the stringers out and working on the transom now. I do have an important question though. The channels that the old stringers sat in do I need to grind them down to the hull or can I leave the box looking sections there and just set the new stringers in them? If not whats the best way to remove them without damaging the outer skin.

 

[zool]

No, you need to grind them all out, and all the adjacent area where the new cloth will lay....you will still see ghosting where they were, so setting the new stringers in the same spot wont be a problem....you don't need to go crazy on the grinding, but it needs to be clean and contaminate free, fresh glass is best.

Yea, wives come with the budget option as standard equiptment.....I took mine to the boat show, once she saw the price of a new or slightly used 28 sportfish, she hasn't said a peep since!

looks like you got yourself pretty far along there, loks good,, now just the miserable job of grinding, make sure you protect yourself from the poly dust...its no good for you...a mask, tyvek suit, and gloves are pretty much required for that job..stay safe.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Zool,

Any recommendations on the best tool or way to grind them out? I am going to pull the motor and drive this weekend and finish ripping the transom out. After that its grinding and prepping for the new stuff. I will post pictures of my journey. Thanks for all the feedback and paying attention to this thread. I know this is a big job but seeing as I have 350 ft of water front need to have something to tie up to my dock haha.

Also transom and string wood.... Do you recommend marine ply for the transom? and what should I use for the stringers?

 

[zool]

A 4 1/2" grinder, any cheapo will do, they tend to wear out from all the dust. You can either use a 24-40 grit flap disk or a pad and stick on resin disks, same grit.

Marine ply is good, but any quality exterior ply will do just fine, ABX, ACX, or even BCX if its not all warped and full of voids...the local big box store usually has something adequate. Try to replace the transom and stringers with the same size, or slightly larger than what was there for the stringers...same with the deck.

350 ft is awesome...you can fit a lot of projects there, once the resto bug hit you

these corner type is what I mostly use, gets the edges well, without cutting thru the hull

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-4...ype-29-Conical-Design-DCC045040N01F/202830906

 

[Lost in Translation]

yes 350 ft will fit a lot and the bug has hit I have spent more time on the boat then at work this past week :laugh:

I do have 4.5 in grinder I will buy some new pads for it and get to work with my 3m respirator on.

As far as the wood I will prob use the big box store stuff seeing as Marine ply is 85.00 dollars a sheet for 3/4 inch here. I planned on going 3/4 in on the stringers and matching the transom width as the Four Winns have one full 3/4 inch and then the center seems to have another 3/4 inch sheet on it. For the deck I was going to go with 3/4 inch.

 

[zool]

Sounds good, if u put everything back as it was, you should have no problems....no need to reinvent the wheel..if your stringers cut out in one piece, they will make good templates...especially if you didn't take measurements

 

[Lost in Translation]

Ya the stringers were wood pulp it was full of water. The foam I removed must of been a few hundred pounds it was so full of water. so no measurements I will just to the best I can when replacing and make cardboard layouts and cut from there.

Thanks for the grinding wheels just ordered a couple on Amazon

 

[Lost in Translation]

Hey Zool,

So I have starting my grinding and have a full day on Friday seeing as I am off from work to do it. My big task for the weekend is removing the drive and motor. Should be fun seeing as I have never taken one apart but have a manual for it. I have a question in regards to stringer wood. I was planning on using 3/4 in plywood for it but someone mentioned to use 1 or 3/4 in pine wood so I can make them out of one piece seeing as they are longer then 8 feet. What do you think about this? Also I do not plan on taking the cap off do you think it would be difficult to fit the new transom in without removing it?

I will be taking a bunch of pictures starting Friday and plan on posting my restore from now on. Thanks for your knowledge and time!!

 

[zool]

I guess yellow pine would ok, but it wouldn't be my first choice, fir is the preferred wood, and ply is stronger vertically..you would be better off splicing 3/8 or 1/2 ply, to the length you need, like this



I have to see pics to let you know about the transom...

 

[zool]

Heres a resto on a freedom, looks like he kept the cap on while doing the transom, but I didn't read to far in....

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...852-1989-four-winns-160-restoration-with-pics

 

[zool]

correction, he did lol

 

[Lost in Translation]

No Title

Hey Zool,

Started my sanding and ripping my transom apart. Sure glad I am as there isn't much left of it. This weekend I plan on ripping the motor and drive off, grinding everything down and finishing ripping the rest of the transom out. I did notice there are these nobs of what looks like epoxy or gelcoat on the inside of my transom I am not sure what they are. Looks like they are plugs or something. Anyways figured I would post some pictures

 

[zool]

Looks like you're making good progress....it also looks like you may be able to work in the new transom wood without removing the cap, once the motor and drive are out...

the nobs may have been just sloppy factory work, or prior holes filled by the previous owner(s)....

 

[Lost in Translation]

Yes that's what I thought they are just not sure if I should grind them flush to the transom so my new piece fits flush. They are not on the outside of the boat. Also I am hoping I can get the new one in without taking the cap off. I do not want to spend the time and energy taking it off also have no room or bracing to hang it. We will see with fingers crossed.

On a side note when I am grinding should I work all the old buckets out like the middle of them or just smooth everything out?