1988 85hp force running problems jiggz jump in here please

[busted-bayliner]

hello all?
i have a small pontoon with a 1988 85 hp force on the back. Background last time out the boat bogged and at full throttle would not go faster than 5 mph lots of stalling when shifting into gear. Took the carbs off did a good cleaning put them back together linked them up. Went on the water yesterday couldnt get over 14 mph at 5000 rpm also had to jam throttle forward then back then foward to get it going or else it would bogg and die. Any idea maybe not a good enough carb clean?? Good spark on all three cylinders. Air/fuel mixture wrong? Im scratching head i did get a back fire once when trying to start after one of the dying episodes. Also clean the screen on the fuel filter. any help or pointers is greatly appreciated

 

[jerryjerry05]

The carbs, in the carb is a low speed jet.
Make sure it's clear.
The air screws set at 1 and 1/8th turn out for initial setting.
Make sure the diaphragm in the pump is good.
You have trim/ tilt on the motor?
If the motors not trimmed right it won't pick up speed.
This the original motor/ pontoon setup?

 

[stubtail]

5000 rpm and 14 mph? Do you have a tach or is the 5000 rpm a guess?

 

[busted-bayliner]

The carbs, in the carb is a low speed jet.
Make sure it's clear.
The air screws set at 1 and 1/8th turn out for initial setting.
Make sure the diaphragm in the pump is good.
You have trim/ tilt on the motor?
If the motors not trimmed right it won't pick up speed.
This the original motor/ pontoon setup?

ill redo the carbs with a fine tooth comb an ill check the diaphragm.
the motor does have tilt trim it did not make a difference.
This is not the set up that came with the pontoon the pontoon is a 2003 crestliner i bought the boat with this set up though.
When i first got it it would top out at 25mph around 5100 rpm not it falls flat on its face

 

[busted-bayliner]

5000 rpm and 14 mph? Do you have a tach or is the 5000 rpm a guess?

yes 14mph at 5000 rpm i have a tach when i first got this toon it would top out at 25mph at 5100 rpm not its a dead fish in the water lol

 

[busted-bayliner]

where should the prop be height wise in relation to the bottom of the toons? just wondering if the prop is to low in the water to begin with i see white out on the flywheel timing marks so i know the previous fellow messed with it should static timing be at 32 or 30

 

[Jeffromxer]

After you cleaned the carbs did it idle well? If not you could be dealing with broken or bent reeds. I had a similar problem with my force 75 that wouldn't idle but would run well at high rpm but you had to go full throttle from the stop or it would bog down. The reeds are fairly easy to remove and inspect. If you are confident in the carb job, I would start there.

 

[busted-bayliner]

After you cleaned the carbs did it idle well? If not you could be dealing with broken or bent reeds. I had a similar problem with my force 75 that wouldn't idle but would run well at high rpm but you had to go full throttle from the stop or it would bog down. The reeds are fairly easy to remove and inspect. If you are confident in the carb job, I would start there.

idled fine i just checked the reeds today hell they look new

 

[busted-bayliner]

UPDATE i got carb kits pulled all three carb cleaned every office then compressed air even popped out the plugs on top of the carbs and cleaned them out. Pulled the reed cage they look great. Then i decided to pull the plug wires while running, an number 1 cylinder the very top one. Pulled the boot of the plug no change in idle at all. Pulled number 2 engine idle slowed an engine died same with number three. I took the plug out and grounded it to the block and it sparks enough to see in daylight. Tomorrow im going to do a compression test see what numbers i get. And buy a spark tester. What is a good psi for this motor??? Also the procedure to test each coil what ohms should they be at???? Do not have a manual thanks in advance

 

[busted-bayliner]

ANOTHER UPDATE did a compression test today all three cylinders are are exactly the same across the board 125. Put carbs back on fired it up same deal number one cylinder when pulling the plug off it makes a lil difference but not much. Pull off any other plug wire the engine slows down an dies i swapped coil packs around to see if the problem followed and it did not. its still number 1 cylinder so could it be the cdi box??? i have the blue prestoilite ??? How do i go about testing the cdi box can i swap the two boxes around???? any help???

 

[busted-bayliner]

Im going to swap around cdi packs and see what happens in the am. Reeds what am i looking for??? To me they look brand new no torn petals an they spring back shut if pushed open

 

[jerryjerry05]

The reeds, you can see if they are bad.
Outboard ignition. com and CDI ignition
Both have test procedures for the 88/85

The wires from the trigger and stator are tiny and can break under the shrink wrap and not work.
Tug on the wires as it runs.
I replace the terminals/ connectors on all the packs, the stator and the trigger.
My stbd motor was starting to miss when I started it up.
Then would "catch" and run great for the rest of the day.
Then one day it wouldn't "catch" and run right.
I checked the wires from the trigger and the first one I checked came loose in my hand.
Easy fix.

If your getting 5000rpm's not sure there is a problem?
Not sure it's missing. Is the tach reading right?

 

[busted-bayliner]

The reeds, you can see if they are bad.
Outboard ignition. com and CDI ignition
Both have test procedures for the 88/85

The wires from the trigger and stator are tiny and can break under the shrink wrap and not work.
Tug on the wires as it runs.
I replace the terminals/ connectors on all the packs, the stator and the trigger.
My stbd motor was starting to miss when I started it up.
Then would "catch" and run great for the rest of the day.
Then one day it wouldn't "catch" and run right.
I checked the wires from the trigger and the first one I checked came loose in my hand.
Easy fix.

If your getting 5000rpm's not sure there is a problem?
Not sure it's missing. Is the tach reading right?

jerryjerry i been thinking about the tach the boat is a 03 and all the gauges are stock. Some one threw this force on i wonder if the tach is reading right. On the water it goes bout 14 mph and never planes out. Im going to test the cdi boxes when i get the kids settled down later today. There is something amiss when pulling the number one plug wire off while running it has no change in idle ive switched coil packs around and the problem didn't follow. The thing sparks out side the block but maybe not firing under pressure?? Ive read this is possible??

 

[Jiggz]

Slow down, you might miss the symptoms and end up buying an entirely new motor. The fact that number one is not firing is already a very good symptom. And the other important symptom is that you have sparks. The next move should have been to do the spray bottle test. Using fuel oil mix in a spray bottle spray directly into #1 carb (you will have to remove the air covers to do this) and listen for change in engine idling speed or tone. If it rpm increases the problem is fuel related.

Since the other two carbs are running fine it means to say the fuel problem is isolated to #1 carb alone and nothing upstream of the carb's intake (Although I still recommend if you have not done yet to install a clear fuel filter between the fuel pump outlet and the carb's inlet - this is primarily more for troubleshooting and secondary as a back up filter). Dismount #1 carb and do the blow test. Dismount the carb bowl and connect a clean fuel hose about 6 inches long. Or if you do not have a spare fuel hose, clean the inlet tube so you can blow into it. With the float down blow slightly into the inlet tube simulating fuel pressure (about 3~5 psi). You should be able to blow into it and feel air coming into the carb's needle port. If not, you have a clogged needle port or the needle is stuck in closed position. Clean and inspect and test again.

If air is coming in, slowly raise the float and as soon as it reaches horizontal or a little bit over, it should close the needle port and won't be able to blow air in. Do this several times before putting it back together to make sure it does not stick. Also check the operation of the float make sure it does not ride or hit any other parts of the carb. Let us know.

If during the spray bottle test the rpm did not increase, then the problem is more than just fuel related. We will evaluate this after the preceding tests are completed.

 

[busted-bayliner]

jiggz thanks for chiming in i will do the spray bottle with fuel mix tonight ive checked the float needle by doing exactly what you said above anytime i clean a carb i always check that way and every float is adjusted. ill report results of spray bottle

 

[busted-bayliner]

ok i did the fuel in a spray bottle didnt do anything except kill the engine.
when pulling the number one boot off the plug while running there is no change in idle but when putting the boot back on the idle goes up for a second then drops down plugs have fuel on them when pulling them out

 

[Jiggz]

No Title

After the spray bottle test and no change, then the problem is probably electrical. You already completed the coil swap so the next move is to do the CDM swap. And while doing this double check all the trigger wires for connections. Visual is not good enough, you have to try to twist, bend and pull them apart (with slight force) to see if they are properly connected. Focus on the trigger wires for #1 cylinder. After the CDM swap do a test again. Here's a wiring diagram just in case you don't have one. You might have to save and enlarge the photo and print it to be readable.

 

[Jiggz]

Note that the CDM's are identical having two separate ckts in each module. However, since the motor is only 3 cylinder, hence #3 cylinder is fed by a CDM with spare ckt not in use. I highly recommend taking photos before swapping to make sure you have a reference how to connect it back. Remember, swap only the CDM's BUT NOT THE TRIGGER WIRES OR THE IGNITION COILS.

 

[busted-bayliner]

going to put a link to videos in a minute
have update in a minute

 

[busted-bayliner]

ok the videos are up loading to youtube. Heres what ive done switched the CDM around and the number one cylinder is still dead its sparking im took a video of my spark tester that i will post this thing has me stumped. I also ohmed the trigger and stator i got 56 ohms on all three triggers. Stator i got 762k ohm and 785k ohm i do not have a dva but am going to get one

jiggz thanks for the info and diagram
and i checked the trigger wires pulling and twisting i have put new connectors on some that looked sketchy
video links
spark tester in line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djZo2l1ZoU

engine running an pulling the plug boot off the number one cylinder i put tap on the boots cuz i dont like shocks lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLPgWYaj_WM