1989 force 125hp help

roquebert

Recruit
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4
Hello .
I recently purchase a 89 Bayliner Capri 185 with a 125hp Force outboard. I`m new in boating but i saw in this forum that bayliner is a good option to start with.

First I`m having diferent compression values:
1- 125psi
2-140psi
3-135psi
4-130psi

On the water starts fine and sound ok, but when you trottle full power just get to 2700rpm and just 8mph. Feels like have no power at all.

I clean the carburator and did decarb but still nothing I`m algo getting gas leak problems from the 1rst carb.

finally how do i know if the boat is rotten?

Help please

David
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Hello .
I recently purchase a 89 Bayliner Capri 185 with a 125hp Force outboard. I`m new in boating but i saw in this forum that bayliner is a good option to start with.

First I`m having diferent compression values:
1- 125psi
2-140psi
3-135psi
4-130psi

On the water starts fine and sound ok, but when you trottle full power just get to 2700rpm and just 8mph. Feels like have no power at all.

I clean the carburator and did decarb but still nothing I`m algo getting gas leak problems from the 1rst carb.

finally how do i know if the boat is rotten?

Help please

David
Welcome to iboats.
Yes Bayliner is a good starter boat.
Let's get this up to the Force/Chrysler repair forum.
Also, ask away in the boat topics and questions, non engine forum or the boat building and restoration forum on the rot question/s.
Again, welcome to iboats.
 

gregmsr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
391
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

I'm sure others will chime in but my 2c worth:

I think compression is ok although 15psi difference in #1 and #2 (10psi is norm)
Rebuild carbs
Replace fuel pump diaphram and check/clean filter
Check fuel lines for blockage and/or sucking air
Replace spark plugs
Check for good spark to all cylinders
Is the fuel mixed correctly (50:1)
Is there old fuel currently in the tank
Has the boat been setting for a while
Mix a couple gallons of fresh gas in separate tank and try running on that
Does the primer bulb get "firm" when squeezed 4-5 times

Do you own a repair manual. Thats a must.

Keep looking and try the inexpensive stuff first. You'll get it right!
Read, read, read lots of posts in this forum pertaining to these problems.
Welcome and good luck!

Next
 

roquebert

Recruit
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Thanks for the advise, more questions in red

I think compression is ok although 15psi difference in #1 and #2 (10psi is norm)
Last night i try againg and the 1rst was 115ps1, rest where 130-140psi

Rebuild carbs
You mean change them?

Replace fuel pump diaphram and check/clean filter
How do i do that?

Check fuel lines for blockage and/or sucking air
How do i do that?

Replace spark plugs
Iwill, i also will change the plugs just in case

Check for good spark to all cylinders
How do i know is a good spark?

Is the fuel mixed correctly (50:1)
Yes I use a quarter for 12 gallon mix

Is there old fuel currently in the tank
Yes I bought tha boat 3 moths ago. The tank was dry and i put the first time 10 gallons of gas. Them try to repair for couple moths without using it.I been filling up each time that i put it into the water

Has the boat been setting for a while
Yes the boat was setting for 9-12 months before i purchase it but when i test it was running fine. I test it 2 time before buying ang WOT in 8 secs, and fells very good. Then i set it for cupple months and now fels that i using a 25hp

Mix a couple gallons of fresh gas in separate tank and try running on that
Did that and get better but just get to 3500rpm. Then i reconnect to the gas line and drop to 2700rpm (no Wot WSE)

Does the primer bulb get "firm" when squeezed 4-5 times
No

These are all the things that I been doing on the boat since i bought it
- change the water pump and impeller
- Change a new Battery
- Replace a section of the gas line
- clean carbs (still leaking gas)


Thanks
 

gregmsr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
391
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Start by rebuilding the carbs. What I mean by rebuild is, buy carb rebuild kits and rebuild the existing carbs. You may want to have them rebuilt by someone else if your not comfortable doing it yourself. Try that first then move on if necessary to the next possible solution.
Let us know how it goes.

Purchase a repair manual for that model engine. I repeat, find a repair manual for your particular model engine. You won't regret it! It is a MUST if you plan on doing your own work.
Good Luck
 

freelunch

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
112
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Hey there Bert, I know it may be off topic but maybe look into the de-lamination earlier Bayliners are notorious for.
Specifically there was a recurring issue with the outer hull and its inner layers of fiberglass separating allowing moisture to accumulate and weaken the hull.
Bayliner addressed this problem, however, talk to someone in the make specific forum to find out what years are affected with the de-lamination-hull issue.
Danny
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Well, Roquebert--let me chime in here. When diagnosing engine problems we really need to slow down and analyse what we know and do not know about the engine.

First, since you say the engine starts easily and seems to run well until you try full throttle, let us assume for now that it is not an ignition problem. Since the ignition system is the most complex and most difficult to diagnose, just for now, let's forget about it.

There are basically only three systems in the engine:
1. Fuel
2. Air
3. Electrical/ignition.

If an engine has the proper amount of air and fuel ignited at the correct time, It must start and run well.

Fuel system would be everything from the tank until the fuel is vaporised in the carburetor.
Air induction system would be the carb butterflies and reed valves (reeds)
Ignition would encompass triggers, stator, CD boxes and coils, timing linkage, and spark plugs.

Now: you said you tested the boat twice with no problems before you bought it, then let it set for a while and now you have problems getting adequate horsepower. So: let's figure out what could have happened in between. Let's start with the fuel system.

First off, take off the spit-back covers, open the throttle to maximum and look to see that the carb butterflies are opening fully. They should be horizontal or nearly so. If they are only opening say 1/2 way, then the linkage is either jamming or slipped. Also, look at the top of the linkage and check to be sure that one of the plastic fittings has not broken, keeping timing from advancing. I know! I said we will leave ignition for later but this is so easy to check, you might as well.

You also said you started with an empty tank and put in some fuel mixed in the correct ratio. You also stated that each time you tried to use the boat, you added more. If it's a Bayliner, it probably has a built in gas tank. There will probably NOT be a strainer inside the tank so we can eliminate a clog there. Now: in the past, I have explained that the combination of different brands of gasoline in a boat tank could cause a gelling problem (and not the good kind like Dr. Scholl's. This is one time you don't want to be Gellin like Magellin.) So if you have used different brands of gasoline, you need to check the entire fuel system from tank to carbs for evidence of this sediment which can clog carbs and filters or strainers. If you have a quick-connect fitting on the tank end of the fuel line, remove the male end and check behind the ball for crud and junk. One of the things you can easily do is to remove the fuel line at the engine and put it into a suitable container. Pump the priming bulb and see if you get a good flow with each squeeze. If so, then we have eliminated everything up to the engine. Next remove the black plastic fuel line fitting on the fuel pump. Look at the enclosed screen. Is it Clean? Yes, then that's not the problem.

You said that the primer bulb does not get hard and one carb leaks. Remove the fuel bowls from the carbs (big brass nut on the bottom) Are the fuel bowls clean? If so carbs are most likely OK. If they have sediment, then our suspicions are raised. If they have so much gel or sediment that the float was held down, then there is your most likely culprit. Carb is flooding and the two cylinders it services are flooding, reducing horsepower. Remove the carbs and thoroughly clean them. Check closely to be sure that inlet needles and seats are clean and not damaged. While the carbs are off, look in the manifold and see if any reed petals are broken off. If there are broken reeds, the manifold needs to be removed and the reeds replaced.

Next let's go back to the fuel pump. The top half is held to the bypass cover by six screws. Remove the screws and pop off the top half. The diaphragm and gasket are located between the halves. Is the diaphragm hard and wrinkled? hold it up to the light. Do you see pin holes? Is it actually cracked or disintegrating? No matter what, replace it and the gasket anyway--It's cheap--3 bucks for the diaphragm and 2-3 bucks for the gasket. Proper order is gasket, diaphragm, then top half of pump. Visually check the three button valves in the top half to be sure they are not being held open by debris and are not damaged. While you are at it, buy a cheap 3 dollar plastic auto fuel filter and put it in the fuel line BETWEEN the fuel pump and carbs. Gheck the short length of hose running to the smaller second stage of the fuel pump. If this hose is cracked, leaking, disconnected, or broken, the pump will not work at its full efficiency. This is for the old style Force pump. The Mercury pump is square and does not have the second stage hose but it does have diaphragms and rubber/composite valves. When you remove and disassemble it, it will be obvious if something is broken.

So now we have examined the complete fuel system and air induction, and eliminated any problems. If the engine problem was fuel related, then it should perform rather well now. The reading of 115 on one cylinder is a little low but it should not cause the degree of power loss you see.

When you have completed all the checks, see if the problem has been solved. If not come back and we will try to diagnose the ignition systen
 

roquebert

Recruit
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4
Re: 1989 force 125hp help

Frank, i'm really apreciated all your help
I'm in Panama *Panama Canal, so i dont have available the parts you told me, but already order the fuel pump kit and new carbs that i found on ebay. Meanwhile i put the boat on the water this afternoon using fresh gas mix in a container and I get 3400rpm (was 2700rpm) but stil i dont get to WOT. I try upping a little bit the trim and i get 4500rpm and WOT but took more that 15 sec > still does not fell as strong and powerfull as use to, but at least is an improvement. So my firts step it will be check por gas clog in the system. them i'll replace plugs, sparks, carb, and fuel pump kit. Am I in the right path?

Why you think is getting better when i rise the trim ?

thanks for all your help. Find this forum has been my salvation. I was totaly lost in ignorance

roquebert
 
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