1990 9.9 johnson idle, wont run but theres more

[Sail is easier]

I have worked on this engine through the winter. It has been so long I dont even remember why i started in on it but it wasnt running well. I replaced the coils, power pack, plugs, fuel pump,rebuild kit on the carb and bought a engine gasket set so I could pull most of it down while I put on a new seal around the base of the engine. ( why I started in on it in the first place ...I think). new fuel line and squeeze bulb on tank.
The engine started right up but didnt run well. I didnt like the plug wires so I got new ones, I pulled the carb apart, again, and blew everything out, again, and it all seems good. I put it all together and again, it idles perfectly but when I put it in gear to power up it just falls apart and dies. I did try to up the idle via the screw on the roller advance and of course broke it. I pulled the flywheel and plate and installed a new one. Put it all back together and it started so quick I fell over in the boat. However it again runs good, for about 15 seconds and dies. When I move quick to put it in gear and add power it sounds like it wants to go, and any minute it will take off but then dies. repeat until arms are atrophied and.... I pulled the plugs and they both are wet and dont look burnt or flooded. Very odd to me though there wasnt any smoke at all when it ran.....oh, and it burnt the paint around the top exhaust port. cheap paint and poor job I suspect but..does this sound like carburation or electrical? a quck aside, when i replaced the power pack it was the type, by number, but when it arrived all the wires were plug and play but for one.given they were all color coded I didnt worry but cut the end off and soldered it to the remaining wire so I could keep the connections. I think this one wire was a condenser?? at any rate it ran fine on start up so am not suspicious of this wire i just providing all the info I can. My arms are worn out and crabbing is coming. Can anyone help?? choke doesnt help. sgueezing bulb doesnt help. I am lost.

 

[oldboat1]

it's pumping water?

 

[Sail is easier]

Occasionally it seems not to after sitting awhile. I used to take it to a repair shop every spring because it didn't pump.1st time he claimed pump was bad but every year after he would maintain it was debri. I read a tip somewhere to take a turkey baste and suck up water then press it up against the discharge whole and squeeze hard. 1 or 2 times and the water would flow. Makes me wonder if that was all he did for the money. The long answer to yes, it's got water squirting out.

 

[oldboat1]

well, haven't heard of the turkey baster trick for outboards -- but there are ways of back flushing. You can pull the thermostat on yours easily enough, and flush from up there. But it sounds like the best approach would be to pull off the lower unit and replace the impeller. If you're a crabber, you're a salt water guy and that can require some extra maintenance. I would start with the water pump, though.

[edit. if any water output issues, that is, or any question of overheating. Head surface temp should be maybe 120-130F -- not too hot to touch.]

 

[Sail is easier]

Thankyou for the response captain. It does seem to flow and I put a new Stat in. I painted the lower but stupid mistake I did not use heat paint.
I am not a mechanic for the record but I do all my own stuff where I can. I can't figure out if the problem is elect or fuel? With my limited knowledge of outboards, engines are engines I figure. Fuel and spark...... at this juncture it seems it could be either, although it did seem to run well when it ran. Makes me lean towards fuel but if I chock it dies, if I squeeze bulb very hard it dies. Could I have missed something on the reinstall and effected timing? I can't fix till I know what's broke.

 

[AlTn]

possibility...stop switch is acting up ...follow the stop switch wiring back to a connector that can be unscrewed...this connector joins a wire that goes over to the power pack with the wire from the stop switch...once disconnected you'll have to use the choke, pull the plugwires or unplug the fuel connection from the tank to stop the engine...anyway it's an easy test to rule out the stop switch

 

[oldboat1]

In addition, check the link and sync discussion(s) at the top of the forum. Choking it as you describe would normally kill it, btw, as could using the primer bulb when it's running (floods it).

That paint thing -- wasn't sure what you were describing, but think maybe it's the exhaust port on the back of the leg. What looks burnt there is likely exhaust residue (polite word with a 2-cycle....) Some painting is a good idea with salt water use (or brackish), but don't need high temp. Just a decent auto paint, can of Duplicolor or similar. Can clear coat for a little added protection and good looks.

I would do a spark test just for grins (about a half inch spark, using an adjustable open air tester). In addition, do a compression test and see if the cylinders are close in that regard. If you have good spark and compression, good water flow, I would still suspect the carb based on your description. Try readjusting the idle mix screw on the carb (initial setting 1 1/2 turn open from lightly seated. With the motor warmed up, turn clockwise about 1/8 turn at a time and wait for engine response. Continue this. At some point the rpms should increase -- throttle it back down and continue with the idle screw. At the point the engine backfires (lean sneeze), back the needle out 1/4 turn and that should be close to the right setting. If you can't dial it in properly, chances are the idle passages need to be cleaned. I disassemble and soak everything metal (top of your carb is plastic, and can clean that out with carb spray and a piece of monofilament or soft wire.)

If the carb is squeaky clean and dialed in, concentrate on the fuel pump. I have that motor in an electric start, and uses the larger pump. If yours is the manual start, I think you have the little square one. In any case, the diaphragm might have a hole in it or has lost its elasticity (taken a set, and feels like cardboard) -- time for replacement. If you work on the little one, an oem kit is a good idea as it comes with a parts diagram. A replacement pump is maybe $70 to $100. Testing by pumping the primer bulb is good, but isn't definitive.

Also, you might end up pulling off the head cover at some point and cleaning out water passages if you find the engine wants to run warmer than it should -- salt buildup in the passages. Kind of a trade off for good crab.

50:1 with clean fuel.

 

[flyingscott]

Before anything else what is the compression and a spark test needs to jump 7/16". It sounds like your motor was overheated once before when they do, they tend to melt the grommet under the power head. Your lower unit should not need heat paint if it is getting that hot sounds like a waterflow issue and if it overheated before could be pieces of waterpump in the system. Take the thermostat cover off and start the motor in water should come flying out. Put up a pic of the wire they should all be connected

 

[Sail is easier]

A lot of very good points and I greatly appreciate your taking time to respond. A little update, I needed to try one more time to start so I could hopefully get pointed better. It started on 2nd pull and ran terrific. It didn't shake and jump like last fall so something I did made a nice improvement but it started to sputter on its way out and as I got the cowling opened it recovered and picked up rpm, and sounded great for about a minute. As I fumbled for throttle bracket I noticed fuel pouring out. Very good news as it hopefully steers this mystery to fuel. I couldn't tell if it was pouring out the screen hole or the gasket though.
I took it back off boat and to shop and removed carb again. The screws did seem loose and I didn't know till recent that both plastic covers are imprinted with the tightening sequence. I checked all the journals and used compressed air to blow it out. I could feel good air passage. The float valve is new as is the seat from the rebuild kit but I seem to recall they send the same jet for 15hp as for 9hp in the rebuild but original may have been smaller??? I threw out the old stuff thinking i was done and bla bla...... I haven't had time to take back to boat yet. i gave up my sleep just to tear in to this but hopefully friday I can pull the rope.
I don't know what all could cause flooding, and possibly it is the gasket that was leaking not the overflow ,, but water was flowing and she ran good while running. The paint looks like it was eat from fuel not from heat as I earlier thought. Wrong choice in paint. I am getting close though. Thanks for the ideas. I am working through them all also while it's apart. Compression is good, Stat is good, kill switch works ok,...

 

[oldboat1]

good post(s). Interesting exercise, isn't it? (or obsession....) Good info on the plastic carb cover.

Hope you've got it handled -- sounds like it.

 

[ondarvr]

Squeezing the primer bulb should not flood the motor, it would have no effect unless the float needle was leaking.

 

[Sail is easier]

Update . It runs perfectly and blows water great upon start up but after all my work it is now flooding out the small screen on the carb side. I saw this earlier and pulled it down and all apart and blew it out. it all looks good but i am ""Guessing"" the needle valve on the float is not seating properly?? I didnt save any parts and wish I had. I may have mixed needle valve and seat?? I dont know why else it would flood. Until it floods it runs wonderful. if i keep upluggin the fuel line before too long it will run indefinitely so I am so close. any suggestions?? would a new rebuild kit help any? I am so close....

 

[oldboat1]

float valve is a good guess. If it were mine, I would just put in a kit -- get one with a new float, if you can. If the kit comes with the needle and neoprene tip (black tip -- think it's neoprene), make sure to use the tiny clip that goes over the float arm and lifts the needle.

 

[Sail is easier]

Ordered kit and will install another. however I was out for a good spin today after I discovered the float was in upside down and she is running terrific. It has been several months. The only issue is a lag at the top end. seemed as though there was not enough fuel or consumption was faster than it could replenish if that makes sense. once it catches up she is off to the races. When I pulled the cover at the dock, while running, I was fumbling with loose wires in the back contemplating how I was going to secure my new work when I managed to get a considerable shock off the engine. I hit the kill switch and poked about to find a cut in a new spark plug wire. I put on a spare but couldnt get the engine to show any lilfe at all. no spark, nothing. still that way now.

Back out, back apart, I did discover fuel dripping again so with magnifying glass I found that I had several small fractures in the plastic float bowl. I think that answers a lot. The lag, the stained water, etc.. I ordered a new one, put in new plug wires, plugs, etc... temporarily put some patch work until my parts come but no show of power?? any guess?? It was fun while it lasted It really run great, until it didnt.

 

[oldboat1]

Well, been there with the float thing, and could probably do it again. That clip I mentioned? It pulls the needle when the float drops -- doesn't "lift" it except on installation when the top is upside down!

But the issue with the float needle valve could still be relevant. The needle with with black tip can stick in the valve (would close off fuel feed).

Guessing.

(Save all parts....)