1990 Evinrude 200 XP Looper timing issues. Need Help please.

[SaltySteel]

Hello all. This is my first post in iboats.

I have a 1991 Javelin 396 FS with a 1990 Evinrude 200 XP model number E200STLESE. When I first got this boat last year it ran great. First run I got it up to 65 MPH on GPS. But the Tach and Voltmeter did not work. Replaced the Regulator/Rectifier and that solved that issue. This year I had issues with it not wanting to crank. But when it did fire up it ran great all day but had a bit of a rough idle and would sometimes stall out at idle. Turned out my Stator was burning out. You could see the black epoxy that was melting out of it. I decided to replace the entire ignition system.

As a reference I checked the timing at idle in neutral on ear muffs and it was at 4 degrees ADTC. This was after warm up and QucikStart not active. Idling at 1000 rpm. Again, no load on the engine. Just wanted a static reference. I pulled the flywheel which look great. All magnets are in perfect shape. Center magnets felt firm too. I replaced the Timer Base, Stator, Power Pack, all 6 coils and spark plug wires, and also the spark plugs with Champion QL77JC4 gaped at 0.030.

After that, just touching the key made her fire up instantly. Timing was still 4 degrees ATDC. Next time on the water it cranked in 1 second and we was on our way. This time with my buddy and gear we were running 58 MPH which was normal. No more rough idle. No more stalling out while idling. We trolled for a few hours for Stripped Bass then took a WOT run for a few miles. Again going 58 MPH. Slowed down when we got to where we was going and the next time I went to take off the motor sounded bogged down. On the run back we could only go 48 MPH max. I lost 10 MPH. Back to a rough idle again. Was stalling out at idle. Hard to crank.

The next day looking over the engine I found the fuel line before the VRO2 pump was kinked and collapsed. Replaced all of my full line with Marine 3/8 I/D A1-15 fuel line. Seemed to fix the issue. The engine went back to firing up on the first lick.

But here is the issue I am having with my timing now. I went to check the timing again. I expected to see the same 4 degrees ATDC. NOPE! The timing mark has now jumped about 120 degrees off! Looking down at the flywheel while standing in the splash well the pointer is at 6 o'clock. Prop is at 12 o'clock. The timing mark is showing up around the 10 o'clock area. I took it to a mechanic that has a lot of experience on these Looper motors and it stumped him. He told me that maybe the key pin sheered and the flywheel moved or the center magnets shifted. So I pulled the flywheel and the key pin was fine. The center magnets feel solid to the touch. I can't budge them by hand. Looking over the Timer Base, Stator, Power Pack, and all of my linkages, everything looks fine. All coils have a good hot spark that'll jump 7/16 gap. All the electronics are made by CDI.

The engine cranks and runs fine. But I will not take it out and run it on the water until the timing is back to normal. I don't want to risk destroying the engine. I would not think that one of these new electronic parts has already gone bad. I'm suspecting the flywheel is the issue now but not sure. They are expensive and hard to find. I pulled the spark plug out for piston 1 and set it to TDC and the pointer and TDC mark on the flywheel are lined up. So it seems to be mechanically correct. So maybe the center magnets moved or shifted anyways, but can still feel solid? How can I tell if they are lined up correctly? All of my carbs are clean. Fuel and vacuum lines are good to go with no leaks. VRO2 pump is in good condition. No oil line and premixing 50:1. Motor has 90 PSI on all cylinders which I've read is good for these engines because they're a low compression engine. All of my wiring has been triple checked and nothing is hooked up wrong. Standing at the back of the engine the top right piston should be number 1 which is what I've been using to check the timing.

I have not tried the Joe Reeves method of checking the timing and spark advance without the engine running. I also have not tried putting my old Timer Base or Power Pack back on to see if anything changes. I also have not performed a Link and Sync procedure. I would like to perform the Link and Sync and check max spark advance after the timing is back to normal, at least somewhere near TDC while at idle. Has anyone ever seen a timing mark that far off while an engine was running? I'm trying to figure out what has caused the timing mark to jump around so far off. I believe 120 degrees is the separation between the firing cycle from what I read? Not sure. I also don't know the firing order for these engines either.

I finally got this thing in tip top shape. Replaced a rotten floor and stringers. Replaced a rotten transom with SeaCast. The person I bought the boat from had it re-clear coated and had new carpet and new interior and new upholstery done. He also said he had the engine rebuilt. Not sure about that though. The boat looks brand new. Finally got it running like a new boat too and now I'm back to looking at it sit in the back yard during this 90 degree weather here in Alabama when I should be on the river. I work second shift Monday through Friday so my free time is mostly limited to just the weekend, which I'd rather spend on the water fishing. Also, one last thing, if I was to replace the VRO2 pump is there a different style pump I could use to feed a 200HP V6? The VRO's are expensive. Even the rebuild kits are costly. Just wondering for future reference in case this pump ever goes out on me.

Any help, advice, knowledge, or experience with these Looper motors would be greatly appreciated. As of right now I feel like I'm lost other than putting my old Timer Base and Power Pack back on one at a time to see if the issue clears up. Other than that I'm completely lost.

Thanks for helping out a Marine vet guys. Looking forward to the wealth of knowledge from you all. Sorry for the long read. Tried to add as much detail and info as I could.

 

[Faztbullet]

Index the flywheel and check timing on the other cylinders. If its only on #1 it likely a bad pack......

 

[interalian]

You sure you had your timing light on #1?

 

[Fed]

Best presented post I've seen in a long time SaltySteel.

FWIW cylinders are designated top to bottom 1 to 6.
Firing order is 1,2,3,4,5,6.
That puts #3 directly below #1.
Each cylinder fires once every revolution, 60 degrees separation so your ~120 degrees would indicate you may be reading #3.

I have no idea other than mixed up coil leads, plug leads or coils etc but judging from your post I'd think you have already checked these out.

Good luck!

 

[SaltySteel]

Thanks for the replies and the help. Turns out I live about 30 minutes from CDI ELECTRONICS in Huntsville AL. Heck, I work about 10 minutes from them. Called their customer support and talked to an engineer name Clark. He told me to bring all of the electronics to him so I did, even my old stuff. Turned out the brand new stator already had a bad coil so he gave me a new one on the spot and double checked it for me. He also said my old stator was bad and my old 6 coils were weak. He even checked my flywheel for the center magnets and said it was in perfect shape. So it's nice knowing my old timer base and power pack is good in case I need a backup spare. All of the old electronics were factory equipment. Oh and he told me that he originally thought it would be a bad power pack because they tend to mess up and fire number 1 and 3 at the same time which would explain my crazy timing light readings. But it was a bad stator.

Well after all of that my electronics were finally in perfect working order. I have taken the boat out 2 or 3 times since then and I can't even get it above 8mph. I'm thinking it's a fuel issue. I've cleared all the fuel lines, replaced the filter, replaced the primer bulb, checked the out put flow of fuel from the VRO2 pump which was good, and took my carbs off and cleaned them. All of the carbs but one were in perfect shape and spotless. Needle points have no wear on them either and look new. One carb had a stuck needle. Has some debris on it making it jam up and not seat all the way. Could have been flooding it. Seems to crank up and run well on ear muffs. Recently got a 150 gallon heavy duty plastic test tank so I'll try it in that next to see if it'll idle right with the exhaust back pressure from the water.
Trying to set idle timing. Might try the Joe Reeves method of setting WOT timing which is supposed to be 18 degrees btdc. It's getting there, but slowly. One step at a time. Might look into replacing that VRO pump. I'm premixing 50 to 1. Oil side is plugged off and that 3 wire harness is unplugged. Might try replacing the thermostats and temp sensors. I have unplugged the temp sensor leads to see if that makes a difference. Can't really tell any. Also read about some resistor in the brown wire could cause issues? I can't seem to locate it. Compression on all 6 pistons is 98psi. Can't seem to spot any blown gaskets or leaks anywhere on the block or intake side. Don't notice any blow back or sneezing coming out of the intake side so I believe my reeds are in good shape. I believe the motor is in great shape. It's probably just one stupid little thing causing an issue. I think it's fuel or timing related now.
Really do appreciate the help guys. For such a simple motor compared to the modern stuff they are very finicky and touchy. Lol but when it does run it screams! I've had this boat up to 65mph on GPS which is plenty for me.

 

[BUST-OUT-ANOTHER-THOUSAND]

Thanks for the replies and the help. Turns out I live about 30 minutes from CDI ELECTRONICS in Huntsville AL. Heck, I work about 10 minutes from them. Called their customer support and talked to an engineer name Clark. He told me to bring all of the electronics to him so I did, even my old stuff. Turned out the brand new stator already had a bad coil so he gave me a new one on the spot and double checked it for me. He also said my old stator was bad and my old 6 coils were weak. He even checked my flywheel for the center magnets and said it was in perfect shape. So it's nice knowing my old timer base and power pack is good in case I need a backup spare. All of the old electronics were factory equipment. Oh and he told me that he originally thought it would be a bad power pack because they tend to mess up and fire number 1 and 3 at the same time which would explain my crazy timing light readings. But it was a bad stator.

Well after all of that my electronics were finally in perfect working order. I have taken the boat out 2 or 3 times since then and I can't even get it above 8mph. I'm thinking it's a fuel issue. I've cleared all the fuel lines, replaced the filter, replaced the primer bulb, checked the out put flow of fuel from the VRO2 pump which was good, and took my carbs off and cleaned them. All of the carbs but one were in perfect shape and spotless. Needle points have no wear on them either and look new. One carb had a stuck needle. Has some debris on it making it jam up and not seat all the way. Could have been flooding it. Seems to crank up and run well on ear muffs. Recently got a 150 gallon heavy duty plastic test tank so I'll try it in that next to see if it'll idle right with the exhaust back pressure from the water.
Trying to set idle timing. Might try the Joe Reeves method of setting WOT timing which is supposed to be 18 degrees btdc. It's getting there, but slowly. One step at a time. Might look into replacing that VRO pump. I'm premixing 50 to 1. Oil side is plugged off and that 3 wire harness is unplugged. Might try replacing the thermostats and temp sensors. I have unplugged the temp sensor leads to see if that makes a difference. Can't really tell any. Also read about some resistor in the brown wire could cause issues? I can't seem to locate it. Compression on all 6 pistons is 98psi. Can't seem to spot any blown gaskets or leaks anywhere on the block or intake side. Don't notice any blow back or sneezing coming out of the intake side so I believe my reeds are in good shape. I believe the motor is in great shape. It's probably just one stupid little thing causing an issue. I think it's fuel or timing related now.
Really do appreciate the help guys. For such a simple motor compared to the modern stuff they are very finicky and touchy. Lol but when it does run it screams! I've had this boat up to 65mph on GPS which is plenty for me.

Did you ever find out the problem? I am having the same problem and cant find it out what my problem is and its the same.