1990 Force 120 engine woes

sixguns

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Jun 10, 2010
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9
Ok, so I bought a 1990 Bayliner Capri with a Force 120 for a smoking deal of $500...lower unit was locked up, but I found a dude on eBay that's hooking me up with a good used one for a deal too good to pass up. But, before I dropped cash on the motor, I decided to do a leak down test so I wasnt throwing good money after bad...cylinder 3 had 70% leakage, all other 3 were under 10 and nearly snapped my wrist off when it the crank snapped to from the pressure...so they're good. Pulled the head and...Holy hell, piston's beaten like someone forgot a bolt in the cylinder after a rebuild..fairly fresh looking cross-hatching so I'm assuming it was rebuilt fairly recently. Pretty harsh lateral score on the sidewall of #3 and it looks like someone attacked the top of the block with a grinder. Fairly even but it looks like garbage and doesn't seem like it would do a very good job of sealing up. No signs of leaking or blowby on the part of the head gasket but still....what's the best bet here? Have the block bored and run the next largest piston? The scoring on #3 is the most concerning to me and the piston is shot. But should I be worried about the mating surface on the head? It's been working thus far, and part of me is saying if it ain't broke, don't fix it... And can you buy just the block? I've found the entire freaking assembly on eBay for like 4k but...at that rate, I'd buy a different motor. I attached some pictures of the piston and block for a bit of reference. Thanks for any input anyone can give...and like everyone else....money is a concern here, so just dropping several grand on a new motor isn't exactly a reality.
 

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pnwboat

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Oct 8, 2007
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4,251
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

Looks like a classic case of a broken ring. If you are mechanically inclined, $100 for a new piston w/rings. Boring the cylinder, maybe around $30 - $40. New gasket set for complete motor tear down, $80 - $90. If you have to have a machine shop do all the work.... most likely over a grand.
 

sixguns

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Jun 10, 2010
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Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

I don't have a problem tearing the motor down and repairing it...my main concern here is boring only #3 and not the others...any issues arise from having a bit more displacement in one jug vs the others? Also, are these cylinders sleeved from the factory....and if so, could that sleeve just be pressed out, new one in, no harm, no foul? Just a though...thanks for the input.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

The displacement is so small that even with a .030 overbore it is less than 1/2 inch gain. The engine will never notice it. The cylinder liner is cast in at manufacture. These engines CAN be bored and resleeved but it takes a shop with the know-how and it costs a lot: 100 bucks for the sleeve and 200 or so for the work.

Those stock pistons with the semi-keystone rings are prope to flipping rings. Take your block to a good machine shop that knows how to bore out blind holes. Let them mike the bore and tell you what it needs. Then, bore the one bad cylinder and buy a full set of Wiseco pistons.

Pistons are available in .010, .020, .030, and .040 oversized. They are manufactured to correct clearances and the cylinder is bored, then finish honed to exact size---3.375 plus oversize. For example: 3.375 plus .030 equals finished size of 3.405.

.040 leaves the cylinder walls thin and should only be done as a last resort.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

The displacement is so small that even with a .030 overbore it is less than 1/2 inch gain. The engine will never notice it. The cylinder liner is cast in at manufacture. These engines CAN be bored and resleeved but it takes a shop with the know-how and it costs a lot: 100 bucks for the sleeve and 200 or so for the work.

Those stock pistons with the semi-keystone rings are prope to flipping rings. Take your block to a good machine shop that knows how to bore out blind holes. Let them mike the bore and tell you what it needs. Then, bore the one bad cylinder and buy a full set of Wiseco pistons.

Pistons are available in .010, .020, .030, and .040 oversized. They are manufactured to correct clearances and the cylinder is bored, then finish honed to exact size---3.375 plus oversize. For example: 3.375 plus .030 equals finished size of 3.405.

.040 leaves the cylinder walls thinand should only be done as a last resort.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

The displacement is so small that even with a .030 overbore it is less than 1/2 inch gain. The engine will never notice it. The cylinder liner is cast in at manufacture. These engines CAN be bored and resleeved but it takes a shop with the know-how and it costs a lot: 100 bucks for the sleeve and 200 or so for the work.

Those stock pistons with the semi-keystone rings are prone to flipping rings. Take your block to a good machine shop that knows how to bore out blind holes. Let them mike the bore and tell you what it needs. Then, bore the one bad cylinder and buy a full set of Wiseco pistons.

Pistons are available in .010, .020, .030, and .040 oversized. They are manufactured to correct clearances and the cylinder is bored, then finish honed to exact size---3.375 plus oversize. For example: 3.375 plus .030 equals finished size of 3.405.

.040 leaves the cylinder walls thin and should only be done as a last resort.
 
Last edited:

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
Messages
18,089
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

Good post Frank!!!
The rebuild is not complicated.Just need to have a good machine shop.
I always try to figure out how much it's gonna need to be cut and buy the piston and take it to the machine shop with the block.
That way: NO mistakes.

Machine shops cost vary from $45-$200.
Shop in my area $70
Where are you located?Profile?

Hey Frank where can you get .010 pistons and rings??
I asked Wiseco and they start at .020??????
 

swick

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Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

I'm doing a complete rebuild of a Force 120 right now, we have a pretty good thread going on and I have video'd the whole tear down. Once I get all the new pistons and parts I will also upload the reassemble. I just had 3 cylinders honed and one sleeved for $335. I'm expecting to pay between $500-$600 on the rest of the replacement parts. Here's the thread, it should give you a good idea of what you're in for, so far with some help from the guys on iboats, its been smooth sailing; http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=539426
 

swick

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Messages
282
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

Oh, I should also note that the only reason I'm expecting to pay so much is because I decided to replace all 4 pistons, if you only need the one you will pay much less.
 

sixguns

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Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
9
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

Thanks for the input guys, really. I'll be in touch with the local marine shop today and get a quote for Boeing the cylinder. Btw, Jerry, I'm in Apple Valley, CA. Also, the only markings on the piston tips were stamped "2"s on the top of each. Where would the sizing index be located on the pistons whether std or .020 or whatever they may be?
 

swick

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Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

I don't think they mark the sizes on the pistons themselves but these should be the appropriate pistons for your engine, respectively:
http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx

Just note, I also found them new on ebay for $82 each including shipping. Your machine shop will measure the bore sizes and let you know if you need std, .010, .020, or higher and then just make sure you order the right sizes relative to the work he's done.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

I guess wiseco's website doesn't let you fwd searches, oh well. Just put your engine info in the product search form and your piston sizes will come right up. I found out that force 120's older than 91 have smaller std pistons, so be sure you know the correct year of your motor. I'm guessing if your bayliner is a 90 your force is probably a 90 also, in which case your std would be 3.312.
 

jerryjerry05

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Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,089
Re: 1990 Force 120 engine woes

Oversized pistons usually come with the size marked on the top.
Like 10 or 20.
No markings=standard>
 
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