1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

[PBR_Streetgang]

Motor ran great first time this season, with the exception of taking a long time to start. Now, it wants to stall at idle, but not all the time. When I put it in gear its stalls sometimes....some times its OK, then if I try to push the throttle forward, it seems like it bogs and then stalls. The only way to get it going is to hammer the throttle. If I do this, most of the time it will bog and then jump right up. Sometimes it won't get past the bogging and it will stall. Once its going the motor runs strong. I've changed fuel filter and put in some Seafoam. The was was a mix of old and new gas. Also, what should my optimum RPM and speed be on a 23' center console...

ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!!!!

joe R.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Check the timing pickup roller , if thats ok you need to rebuild the carbs with new carb kits, very simple with ordinary hand tools.

timing roller photos.

http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zerothread/357667-throttle-roller-timing-arm-adjustment-60-motors

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

jonesg, those photos are for a 60* engine. This is not what he has. The photos will only confuse him.
His engine does not even come CLOSE to looking like that.
BUT...still...jonesg is correct....make sure your link and sync is correct, then on to the carbs.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

OK...How do I check the link and sync position if my motor isn't 60 degrees.....Also I noticed some gas leaking out of the bottom of the lower case under the carbs...could this be more indicative of a carb problem that might be causing the stalling?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

The OMC factory service manual has explicit instructions for doing a link and sync. It is an involved process, and too much to explain here.
Yes, if you have raw gas leaking you have some sort of carb/fuel delivery failure that could cause the stalling due to flooding. I would fix that leak first, before lookiing at the link and sync. The leak is obvious.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

The OMC factory service manual has explicit instructions for doing a link and sync. It is an involved process, and too much to explain here.
Yes, if you have raw gas leaking you have some sort of carb/fuel delivery failure that could cause the stalling due to flooding. I would fix that leak first, before lookiing at the link and sync. The leak is obvious.

Thanks "daselbee"....I will certainly check for that right away. Are there any obvious causes for this like stuck floats, etc.? I will check it and report back. This forum is great. Did you see my question about the optimum speed and RPM for this motor? I think I was 30 knots at 4500 RPM, wide open, but don't quote me on that. Once again.....thank you!!

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

No, I didn't see the speed/rpm question, but the answer is 5500 rpm is the target rpm for that engine. If all you can get is 4500, something is wrong...from fuel delivery, to ignition, to wrong prop...all could cause this.
You have plastic carburetor bodies, and a stuck float, or leaking needle and seat in a carb can cause the flooding you describe.

I think you need to go through each system on the engine, compression, fuel delivery, and ignition, correcting the items that are broken.

For one, you should be able to pump the primer bulb til firm. If you have a leaking needle and seat or a stuck float, the primer bulb will not get firm. It will likely also leak out the carb bottoms like you are describing.
Pumping the primer bulb is a very effective way to test the fuel delivery system for leaks. Primer bulb should pump up and stay firm for quite a while...(engine not running). See what you get on your engine.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

I'll check the bulb this morning....I think it stays firm though...I'll double check...one thing I did notice last season was that with the throttle all the way forward, the butterflies on the carbs weren't all the way open....not sure what was up with that.....its just weird b/c the motor seems to run great once up to speed......My friend has a 1997 225HP Johnson that he blew up....he has offered me all the parts.....are the carbs the same on that motor?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Regarding the wide open butterflies, THAT is exactly what we refer to with a "Link and sync".
The link and sync procedure sets and adjusts all the throttle and ignition linkages for proper operation.
That is one good friend you have to give you all those parts.
Yes, the carbs will be the same for those two motors. They may have different part numbers, but they will be the same. Just be sure to check the jet sizes if you chose to use one or more of the 1997 carbs. They have to match on all six cyls. Do not run it lean!!!!

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Regarding the wide open butterflies, THAT is exactly what we refer to with a "Link and sync".
The link and sync procedure sets and adjusts all the throttle and ignition linkages for proper operation.
That is one good friend you have to give you all those parts.
Yes, the carbs will be the same for those two motors. They may have different part numbers, but they will be the same. Just be sure to check the jet sizes if you chose to use one or more of the 1997 carbs. They have to match on all six cyls. Do not run it lean!!!!

Yeah...he actually said I could have whatever I wanted off the motor.....my garage will be full of parts I suppose. I was going to swap out the carbs just as a temporary thing to see if that helps my problem. I am going to get a manual I guess for that motor to help me out.

 

[Boblester40]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

You mentioned that his engine blew up !!! just be cautious about swapping parts over which may of caused his failure in the first place , if the carbs have not been overhauled i would do these and then a link and sync as mentioned and she will be good. Gas leaking could be carb float problems but also as simple as a leaking fuel line which could quite easly be the problem to start with.

rgds
bob

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Hey Daselbee....I was farting around with motor today trying to trouble shoot and I noticed the following. I changed all the plugs, did a compression test and got 60 in all six cylinders. There really is not significant fuel leak that I can find except when the motor is trimmed up and that only lasts for a few seconds.

It still wants to stall at idle and when you throttle up. When I was idling and it wanted to bog and shut down, I held the choke in and it caught itself and kept running. This also seems to bee the fact at slow speeds. When it goes to stall, I push in the choke and it catches itself and continues running. As before, once I get past the bogging, the motor runs great.

I am assuming that the engine not stalling when I push the choke in means that it is not getting enough fuel at low speed or idle which is causing it to stall out. Am I on the right track and will this type of behavior by the motor pretty much guarantee it is a carb problem? Thanks again.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

60 in each cylinder? Sounds suspect. Either you didn't test it right, have a bad gauge or that's a tired motor.

I'd recheck with a known good gauge and go from there.

If you know your gauge is accurate I'd start asking how low of compression is too low.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

60 in each cylinder? Sounds suspect. Either you didn't test it right, have a bad gauge or that's a tired motor.

I'd recheck with a known good gauge and go from there.

If you know your gauge is accurate I'd start asking how low of compression is too low.

Well...the gauge was older...I've heard of two ways to check compression...ONE is to remove all of the plugs and test each cylinder, with plugs out......TWO is to remove one plug at a time and test each cylinder with the other plugs in....I don't think the motor is tired....I do about 35 knots at 4800 RPM's with two people on it...(aluminum prop)....So I really don't know if thats tired or not!!! It seems to run great...except for the idle and low speed stalling.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Yeah, I agree, 60 is low. I test with all plugs out, and the key OFF to make sure the ignition is killed. Then I use a remote starter switch directly on the starter solenoid.

It can point to carbs when you can get it to pick up by pressing the key in.
You have the plastic carbs, with a needle adjustable idle mixture, and a fixed intermediate jet and a fixed HS jet.
I would not try ANY adjusting of the idle mixture needles.
You have not said anything about the wide open butterflies issue.
Have you done the link and sync yet? Look at that first because it costs NOTHING. Then proceed to the carbs, possibly dirty idle or intermediate circuits.

If your carbs and ignition linkages are out of adjustment, it will behave as you are describing.

Get that factory service manual, too.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

Your compression tester is most likely faulty, once compression starts falling much under 80 psi, engines get very difficult to start and power output is noticeably reduced. As long as the motor starts fine it will perform once the carbs and ignition are dialed in correctly.

The fact that ALL cylinders have almost identical compression readings is most important. Generally, readings within 10% are acceptable, of course the closer they are the more 'balanced' the power from each cyl.

You have two problems with your motor.

One, the carbs are dirty and in dire need of cleaning. The onset of a faulty idle and bogging on acceleration is the first sign of dirt/fuel deposits restricting fuel/air flow, leaning out the idle circuit. The idle circuit is much more sensitive and develops these symptoms long before you notice a problem at WOT.

HOWEVER, continued operation with dirty carbs WILL lead to leaning of the fuel mixture at WOT and melt a piston. Rebuilding your carbs will be far cheaper than rebuilding your motor. DO NOT use carbs from a blown motor without rebuilding them first, they may have caused the blow-up.

Your second problem is the throttle NOT opening completely. You will fix this problem as part of the installation and adjustment of your cleaned/rebuilt carbs as you follow the direction in the service manual to Link and Sync the carbs with the throttle and timing linkages.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

As for the factory service manual...Which manual is best? I have read some different things in reference to that? I want to make sure I get the best one, due to my lack of outboard knowledge. Thanks again.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

PBR...the FACTORY service manual by OMC.
www.outboardbooks.com.

Kinda pricey, about 70 bucks if I remember right...but it has everything in it.
Clymers and Selocs try to cover too many engines in one book. Too general.

 

[PBR_Streetgang]

Re: 1998 Johnson 200 Ocean Runner Stalling...HELP

PBR...the FACTORY service manual by OMC.
www.outboardbooks.com.

Kinda pricey, about 70 bucks if I remember right...but it has everything in it.
Clymers and Selocs try to cover too many engines in one book. Too general.

I can't seem to find my Johnson on that site. It seems to stop at 1996. I have a 1998 J200TXECM. Should I just call them or dothey not have what I need.