2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

[george_m007]

Any advice on recomendations for a new boat, to be used partly for waterskiing. Im told that 2 stroke have better get up and go and other dealers say 4 stroke is just as good as will more than do the job.<br /><br />Is the price difference worth paying for to get a 4 stroke as opposed to a 2 stroke if this is something worth considering. I know they are quieter but by how much and is it worth the money?<br />Any advice is great as Im new to this and want to know what to look out for. Ive been looking at Yamaha outboards 115 or 130HP 2/4 strokes

 

[JB]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Hi, George.<br /><br />It's not that simple.<br /><br />There are carbureted, EFI and DFI 2 strokes, and there are Carbureted and EFI 4 strokes. The E-Tec Evinrudes look like a whole different category, but it is too early to tell for sure.<br /><br />The best of both are DFI 2 strokes and EFI 4 strokes. The costs (highest) and weight (heaviest)are comparable. They are quieter (EFI 4 strokes are quietest), most economical and most reliable.<br /><br />Carbed 2 strokes are lightest and least expensive. They are also the noisyest, smelliest, smokyest, least reliable and least economical.<br /><br />For me, at least, carbed 4 strokes and EFI 2 strokes no longer count unless the price is irresistable.<br /><br />My personal choice is a EFI 4 stroke for easy, clean, quiet, smooth and economical operation.<br /><br />Any 2 stroke will give you the impression of better hole shot and accelleration than a 4 stroke, but my experience is that they sound that way but the real difference is minimal.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[bossee]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Hi,<br />I use Yamaha F115 4-stroke (2003). I like both the power and that it is quiet at all RPM in my opinion, even at full RPM. At idle You can almost not hear it is running. Had 2-stroke before. Some pros and cons with both types, some of the latest 2-stokes (for example Mercury Optimax 115) is almost comparable to most 4-strokes both regarding sound at all RPM (except idle maybe) and are for sure equal or better in performance at least at higher RPM. I read a comparison of Mercury 115 EFI (4-stroke) and Mercury Optimax 115 (2-stroke) in a Swedish boat magazine and they performed very similar. Want to hear them?<br /><br /> F115 EFI 4-stroke (4 cyl) <br /> Optimax 115 2-stroke (3 cyl) <br /><br />In that test the Optimax had just a little better acceleration (~1 sec faster to 25 knots, ~4 sec faster to 35 knots). Sound, both about equal in decibel at all RPM. Optimax in this test 1 knot faster at full RMP (they tested both outboards on exactly same boat). The F115 EFI 4-stroke slightly less fuel consumption at all RMP. <br /><br />/Bo

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Bo, what you indicate here is not "very simular".<br />4 seconds faster to 35???? That's a heck of a difference. "slightly better" as for fuel economy, and both have the same noise level at WOT.<br />Seems to me, the 2-stroke wins hands-down with price consideration, and weight.<br /> George, take a good look at both before you buy, there are many things to consider.<br />Personally, I would recommend the 2-stroke because of the accelleration, weight and cost. maintenance could go either way, depending on the care given........

 

[JB]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Good points, Kennys.<br /><br />On the other hand, you generalize all 2 strokes. The differences in weight, economy, smoke, stink, reliability and cost of carbed vs. DFI 2 strokes are huge.<br /><br />The arguments in favor of a 115 Optimax simply don't work for the carbed 115 2 stroke engines, and they probably don't work for HPDI vs. carbed Yamahas either.<br /><br />I hear this every day. "All 2 strokes are lighter, quicker and cheaper than all 4 strokes of the same power rating". Not true. For example, compare the real selling prices, weight, economy and performance of the Suzuki/Johnson DF140 EFI 4 stroke to any DFI 2 stroke in that power range.

 

[bossee]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Hi,<br />To be more clear about the test:<br />- 2 persons onboard.<br />- Merc F115 4-stroke (4 cyl), Merc Optimax 115 2-stroke, not carbed (3 cyl), same boat.<br /><br />Kennys: Yes the Merc 115 Optimax is not as expensive as Merc F115 EFI, 115 Optimax ~US$800 cheaper (in Sweden). Difference in weight between the two are only 5 kg, 115 Optimax lighter. Merc Optimax 115 seems really a fine outboard if judged by the test below. I do not know how long 115 Optimax has been on the market, if it came on the market recently we do not know from experince how reliabale it is. With 115 Optimax it might be little more smoke at startup and it is 3 cyl and for that reason maybe run with slightly more vibrations at some RPM??<br /><br />Testresult:<br /><br />

<br /><br />/Bo

 

[Forktail]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Ive been looking at Yamaha outboards 115 or 130HP 2/4 strokes

I own both. The Yamaha 115/130 2-stroke is an excellent outboard. But it can't compare to the F115 4-stroke. <br /><br />The F115 is EFI compared to carbs. It will start and idle much better. It'll be 30-40% better on fuel. Quite. Clean. No need for a remote oil reservoir mount. Better warranty. Better resale. <br /><br />If you want the Cadillac go with the F115. You'll get what you pay for.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

JB, Yes, I was very vague as to WHAT 2-strokes, and I guess I mainly think of non-carburated when comparing to 4-strokes. Optimax, Vmax, Evinrude. They DO weigh more, cost a little more, and yet still in my mind, the performance is all there, and like you once said; "Now that Force is gone.....", you can't go TOO wrong with any choice, and I believe this as well......

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

I can only add that for me reliability and economy is of most importance, and I think in this area are the 4 strokes better. Besides, I don't like high pressure in any engine (like DFI 2 strokes).

 

[Old Jarhead]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

It's been said many times but bears repeating... Once you've owned a 4 stroke you'll never go back!!<br /><br />My .02

 

[UpstNYer]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Are carbed 2-strokes REALLY that bad? This thread makes them sound little better than boat anchors. Up here in snow country, they admittedly don't get used year round, but good running, easy starting 20 to 30 year old carbed 2-strokes are rather common. Most that I'm familiar with have never required more than normal care and good preventive maintenance. Jumping on small problems before they get big seems to make a difference. How much more reliability do you need? And, really, how much reliability can you PROVE with designs that have been around less than 10 years?<br /><br />To me the carbed 2-strokes seem like a positive bargain compared to the EFI/DFI whatevers. Besides, carburetors I can fix. With bad brain boxes I'd just gulp and buy new. But I'm not an expert; what am I missing? This can't be all about smoke and noise.<br />Bob

 

[RJS]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

The Merc 115 Optimax is a new engine in Merc's line up. It doesn't have an external oil tank, it's mounted on the engine. If it's anything like the Optimax 135, it's probably a pretty good engine. The orbital DFI system isn't a high pressure DFI system like the yamaha and Ficht. It's good to have so many choices in this HP range. I do agree that any fuel injected system is better than carbs, regardless of 2 stroke or 4 stroke. DFI 2 strokes don't smoke like conventional 2 stroke EFI's or carbs.

 

[MajBach]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

UpstNYer :<br /><br />You're right! I'd give anything for my Honda 90 to be as light, rugged, forgiving and easy to fix as my old 1964 Evinrude. But since I have had a four stroke, I wouldn't use the ole smoke billower to make a bubblebath.<br />MajBach

 

[Forktail]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

You should get out more UpstNYer . <br /><br />

How much more reliability do you need? And, really, how much reliability can you PROVE with designs that have been around less than 10 years?

I just can't picture a 20 or 30 year old 2-stroke carb running out and back from the Gulf, day in and day out. Sorry. I'll take proven 4-stroke EFI technology which has been around for years and years in millions of automobiles. They have proven themselves on my boats.<br /><br />

Are carbed 2-strokes REALLY that bad?

I don't think anyone has ever said they're "bad". Obviously they work fine for your use and budget....but that doesn't make them the best.<br /> <br />Once you own one, you'll feel different Bob.

 

[UpstNYer]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

Hee Hee, you're right Forktail, I should get out more. But with the freeze setting in it won't be for another 4 or 5 months. <br /><br />Never having experienced the best, I don't know what I'm missing. Guess that makes me ignorantly content....with a few more bucks in the bank than otherwise. <br /><br />May your 4-strokes never stop strokin'<br />Bob

 

[manitoba1]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

George<br />I've owned a number of 2 strokes over the years and overall I was happy with the performance and reliability but they tended to be less forgiving when running under extremes in temperature or if not run for a few weeks or more. They smoked and were somewhat noisy and tended to use more than there fair share of fuel. I live in an area of Canada where I might be fishing on mornings in the fall when the ambient temperature may be below freezing or pulling a skier in the hot summer sun, so having an engine that was not only capable of performing strong and starting when I turned the key was an important to keeping my boating pleasurable and safe. I hoped for an engine that could troll all day without carboning up and allowed me to talk to my friend without yelling.<br /><br />I had to replace or rebuild my old 2 stroke which had cooked a cylinder and after a fair bit of research decided to bite the bullit and get a <br />EFI 4-stroke even though the cost was considerably more than the rebuild. <br /><br />To make this long story short, I would never go back to a carbed two stroke after operating an EFI 4 stroke engine which not only is far cheaper on fuel than my old engine which had 15 hp less but is unbelievably quiet, starts on a quick turn of the key and has impressive power. I'm sure that many of the DFI 2 strokes have similar characteristics in performance, price and economy to my 4 stroke but I've heard of a few too many cooked powerheads on Opti's, HPFI yamis and Ficht's to change my mind just yet. I'm sure their record has improved as of late though. <br /><br />I love my 4 stroke since it runs flawless under all the extremes in weather I boat in and after a few years now I have no problems what so ever. I'm no expert just a very satified boater so take it for what it is <br /><br />Manitoba1<br />2000 70hp EFI Suzuki 4 stroke

 

[honda cat]

Re: 2 Stroke or 4 Stroke

what we read in all those boating magazines does not seem to all ways work out quite the way it did when the magazine tested it ect. <br /> But speaking from the stand point of being 45 years old and still enjoying water sking a couple times a year 3 or 4 seconds behind a boat being draged through the water on one ski is a tremendously long time .<br /> The technology we are dealing with here changes almost on a daily baisis what was true yesterday has changed today . Who knows about e tech? i have run one at the dealer show sure runs great! but so did the 1999 fitchs this looks like just another generation of the same thing and i am sure that there has been many improvements made.<br /> One thing that has come along recently that has impressed me is the new 135/150 Honda i got to run a couple of them on diferent kind of boats at the honda dealer show in florida a month back . and the HOLE SHOT was unbeliveable and is lighter than their old style 115hp . Better than most carb 2 strokes that i can ever remember and at the very least compairable with the new DI out boards . Its makes a bunch of the old facts on four strokes obsolete and deserves a look!