20hp vs 25

[MrCanoehead]

Saw old posts about this, but nothing about newer motors, so in case they've changed any, i thought i'd ask. Please note, prices I quote below are Canadian, so they might not look competitive...

I'm about to purchase a new 4-stroke motor for a new 14ft deep-v utility (freshwater lakes). I was leaning towards a 20hp mercury (carb) because the price i can get is pretty decent (~$3200). I'd be getting electric start because my dad might not be able to pull start it because of shoulder injuries. Longshaft/Tiller.

(1) I'm currently debating going up to the 25hp instead (EFI). But there's a big jump in price to the 25hp electric, it would probably come in close to $900
extra when you add in the required prop, fuel line and tank that comes with the 20hp.

The boat is rated up to 35hp and i'm not going there because of cost. Given the differences (EFI vs carb , 40-50lbs heavier, and about 30% more money), the 20hp seems the better choice. But i don't want to be unhappy if the 25 is really a better engine and will provide better performance (doubtful to me).

(2) Is power tilt/trim useful? I've never had it, but i can see the merits. on the 25, that would be another $420. It might be useful as manual tilting the 25hp might be hard for my dad due to all that extra weight.

FYI, i'll mainly be using the boat for fishing locally, and pleasure boating with my 2 young kids. I'd love to be able to tow them but realize this probably isn't going to be possible even if i went with the max 35hp. Certainly 5hp extra probably won't make much difference there...

Thanks for helping out a boat newbie.

 

[fhhuber]

Well.. I can't say much about the difference in power.

Power tilt/trim lets you fine tune the engine angle on the go. That can be helpful if you do it right or it can help you make the boat unstable.

The typical manual set, you find the normal best angle (within the pin hole adjustments) and your motor is either up for trailering or down for running it. (with the reverse engaging a lock to prevent the motor swinging up)

Power tilt, the engine is held at the angle , forward or reverse, by the hydraulics.

If speed matters (you'd be getting a bigger engine) then the tilt trim will help you get max speed for any number of people and other load (within the boat's limits) you might have on any given day.

The compromise setting by the adjustment pin will be fine for general use.

The engines are balanced pretty well for manually raising and lowering them. I doubt that will be an issue.

**************

You can tow younger kids on a tube and they'll have fun with just an old Johnson 9.9... Younger kids you have to throttle down for their safety if you have a high speed boat.

You don't have to be going 90 mph with your hair on fire to have a good time on the lake.

 

[flyingscott]

The EFI will be a better running motor. Considering the weight of the motors if your dad can't pull start one will he be able to tilt it. I have never heard anyone say they did not like T/N/T.

 

[jimmbo]

Check out the Evinrude E-tec engines, two stroke, so you can be across the lake and back before the 4 stroke gets up on plane. if you were to get the 30 or 35, they have lots of torque and on a utility(sit ant back and steer) type boat can pull an adult up on two skis with little or no trouble

 

[Sea Rider]

Are you saying than the 25 HP model doesn't come with tank, prop and fuel line, if so, that's a customer theft. All portable OB's should come same as the 20 HP model. Is that 14 footer a alum or fiberglass one ? what's it's max rated passenger capacity with a 35 HP engine ? So you plan boating usually with 3 up with which engine brand ?

If you balance deck weight distribution well, engine sits at a correct transom height, is spot on trimmed you don't need hydraulic trim & tilt, it's same as leaving a manual trim engine set right, once correct trim hole is dialed to achieve combo running parallel to water level, don't need to move it any more. If you father has shoulder issues is another story and money well spent.

You can always maximize a prop for OB to rev near max wot revs with 3 up, will achieve a better hole shot, good top speed, nice fuel consumption at say 3/4 throttle.

Happy Boating

 

[MrCanoehead]

Thanks everyone for replies, I must have forgotten to turn on notifications as I didn?t see these replies come in!

fhhuber
Thanks for the breakdown on trim. I?ve only even seen trim on big engines previously, never used it though. There it makes more sense because you have a big boat with lots of variable weight and situations. On a little engine on a light utility, it strikes me as overkill. The pin setting seems like an ok compromise, though if the boat is weighted poorly, starts and top end won?t be optimal.

And I do remember using a 9.9 as a kid and towing each other, it works and was fun, though we?d only ski behind the parent?s >100hp boats. I guess i?m trying not to delude myself that I?m getting a ski boat At those HP ratings, I don?t expect much difference between 20 and 25 for towing kids. Would there be?

flyingscott
In what way is the EFI a better running engine? Smoother? Less finicky? I expect given the weight difference I?m not going to realize much better top-end performance. What about maintenance?

jimmbo
I will check out the Etec engines. Perhaps an option. People rave about the power of 2-strokes. I?m concerned about fuel economy and pollution, too. I know these are better than old-school 2-strokes like what I?m used to as a kid, but?

Sea Rider
It seems the places I?ve spoken to here (including a big US/Canadian outdoor store) do not include the prop/tank/fuel line in the list price of the motor over 20HP for Mercurys at least. Not sure about other brands, although I seem to remember the Yamaha was the same. The tank/line is silly to exclude, it?s not even expensive, but they justified the prop being excluded because you would select which prop for your specific application? I guess it makes it look cheaper, but they?re quick to point out that?s why the price looks so much better, and you?d need to buy them.

The utility is a 14ft Smoker Craft deep-V aluminum. The boat?s rating label on the transom says 1047 lbs max weight, 4 people, 35hp (max engine weight=420lbs). Dry weight is 185lbs on spec sheet. Sorry, I?m not sure what ?3 up? means?

Yeah I guess a well balanced boat is what you are after, and power trim is a way to get the boat balanced instead of moving people/gear/fuel tank around. It sounds like you are saying once it?s trimmed, you don?t have to move it. Would you not still want to adjust the trim for starts/cruising for improved efficiency? And presumably as soon as you change the people/gear/distribution in the boat, you won?t be trimmed correctly and would need to adjust. IF I?m maxing out that 1000lbs, power trim would be an asset, when it?s just me fishing, I?d probably never change it. I guess i need to find out if my dad can tilt the motor, if he can't then i'll need power tilt. Otherwise, i'll probably just compromise performance a bit and not get it.

 

[fhhuber]

Depends on the kids (mostly age) as to how much fun they'll think it is at any given speed.

And MORE HP is how you get more speed to make the older kids happier on the tube.

16 yr olds would think getting towed by a 9.9 is pretty lame... 5 yr olds might think its the best ride ever.

 

[flyingscott]

The EFI is a better system than a carburetor is smoother running and easier starting and emissions and fuel mileage will be better.

​The E-TEC is an excellent option fuel mileage will be equal to a 4 strk as will emissions and you get more power. The E-TEC has the CARB-3 emissions rating which is the highest possible, the emissions are so good it is the only motor allowed on some lakes in Clifornia.

 

[Sea Rider]

MrC,

Some issues :

Depending on the geographical market most dealers includes tanks, attached prop and fuel lines, seems some not which personally find is a real cheat, eye catching pricing an outboard with incomplete OB parts.

Selecting a prop on an outboard which was delivered without one will be a starter prop, doesn't mean will achieve best combo water performance with 3 up (3 boaters on board) LOL. Starter prop wot rpm will need to be checked under a wot run on flat calm no wind water cond along an induction tach. Depending on the wot numbers can go latter for a prop maximization to pull revs up if needed to be around max wot rpm range for that OB brand.

With time you will know how to distribute deck waight well. In your case being a tiller driven boat you will need to drive next to transom assume on a seat, can move youngsters, fuel tank and goodies up front on bow seat if having one. Once you dial a correct manual trim hole for combo to ride parallel to water level you won't need to trim it again if same weight distribution is maintained excactly same on next outing.

Correct OB/transom height along spot on deck weight distribution is mandatory for fast plane on OB's that doesn't count with electric trim & tilt. 420 Lbs including passengers and OB is a very light combo, for instance I'm running a deep V keel 1050 Lb combo with just a 2 strokes 18 HP OB, with a maximed prop and 2 up literally jumps on plane near instantly. I'm sure will have good boating time with an electric start standard 20 HP or same with electric trim/tilt for cruising purposes at speed while both are correctly propped. Pulling water toys with light youngsters is not that much more HP demanding as opposed to heavier ones.

Happy Boating

 

[MrCanoehead]

Thanks for all the info thus far. I still haven't really decided how to go. I've read lot of posts talking about how EFI is better when working but over complicates the engine (sensors, electrical failures) and recommending carbed motors, and as many posts saying how carbs are too finicky, needing adjustments and have require more service costs. Not sure if any of it is based on fact, but my brain hurts from the decision. About the only thing I've decided is the ETEC-25 is not really in the cards. Low service is great, power is great, auto winterizing is great, but it's nearly double the price of the 20HP merc I began my search with. Some comparisons here for electric start, long shaft tiller, with or without power tilt and trim (all inclusive):


Merc 20 (carb)= $3600
Merc 20 PTT = $4200 (estimate)
Merc 25 = $4600
Merc 25 PTT = $5050
ETEC 25 = $5650 (quote is for cheaper white model, add 2-300 hundred for grey/black version)
ETEC 25 PTT = $6215 (white)

So its about $1000 to move from carb to EFI (with 5 hp bump), and another $1000 to move to DFI ETEC. I could almost justify the first step up to EFI if the technology was mature enough that i'm not going to be replacing sensors/needing diagnostics all the time like the horrors i'm reading about ("i'll never buy an EFI...").

Does anyone know if the 20hp needs to be bolted to the transom? the 25merc (and presumably the ETEC) does. Seems so permanent. The reality is i'm probably not taking it off except for winter storage, but i'm concerned about drilling the transom ( e.g., having motor set incorrectly, or impacting future motor upgrades because of needing holes in different spots for a different motor).

 

[Sea Rider]

Is not true that carbed engines needs lots of spare parts and service, just use high quality fuel and run carb bowl dry after use if engine won't be used for several days. On heavier engines is better to bolt them on transom, it's also an excellent theft deterrant.

Happy Boating

 

[jimmbo]

Bolting it to the transom does deter the grab and run thief. It also ensures the engine doesn't leap off for a water nap

 

[Sea Rider]

It's good for passer by thiefs that "only" steals clamped OB's sitting on transoms. Once bolted can add a nice clamp lock. If theft wants to steal the whole combo is other story. Get an insurance for your peace of mind and sleep well. Find that most boaters just adjuts both clamps tight with fingers and never check them back if still tight.

Happy Boating