275 out drive ujoint question

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rleip21

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Water recently entered my ujoint bellow. The ujoint is rusted but still swivels fine do I need to change the ujoint.
 
Don S

Don S

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

You can fix them now while replacing the bellows, or wait until boating season and then do it in the nice warm boating weather.
I would also be looking for rust on the yoke where the front seal of the gear box rides. If it's rusty, then it will cut the seal up and you could loose the gear lube. May be a good idea to open the gear box and check that seal washer.
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Do you need to pull the ujoint out of the gear box to fix the ujoint or can you do it while its still in the gear box. Also does anyone know a good position to put the screw part of the bellow clamp? The book says to put them on the top, but when I do it gets cut because it gets crimped when the outdrive is in the up position.
 
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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Agree. Open it up and look at this seal surface washer. It's probably rusted some as Don said.

FYI; the 275 (not 275A) main drive gear bearing pre-load is shim controlled inside of this washer. A new washer will not be the same dimension as the old one, so do what you can to save the surface.
The new seal gives about .030"+ squeeze onto this surface, so you can polish up to .003" - .004" off of this surface and not harm the new seal squeeze.
A new washer requires you to re-shim and re-set the rolling torque value for the drive gear bearings.

While you have it apart, press the gear out and look at these two bearings. If V-8 powered they may need to be replaced by now.

The crosses can be changed without pulling the male yoke out but not as easily.
Also, you can't replace the main seal until you remove the entire bearing box assembly in order to remove the male yoke from the drive gear.

Swing the clamp around so that the worm screw doesn't interfere with anything.
Use the OEM Euro style clamps.
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Another question: Does it really hurt if that seal is bad? I figure a little oil might come out, but if I fill it does it matter? I am not sure how to pull that entire assembly apart and it looks pretty tough.
Thanks,
Ryan
 
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BlueLightSpecial

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Iam dealing with the same issue. I have a 280 that has a seal leaking. The idea is this: As the gear box warms up, it creates positive pressure, pushing fluid out of the worn seal. Thats problem number one. Problem number 2: As the upper gear box cools, it creates negative pressure. Assuming you bellow is leaking, and there is water present, the negative pressure will pull the water in to the gear box. From what I have learned from this forum, it costs like $500 to reseal the gear box, due to the labor intensive shimming, setting the bearing torque, etc. My question is, if you use the original shims in their original locations, can the seal be replaced without affecting bearing preload, etc? I have pulled carriers out of light duty pick ups, reused the shims with no problem, however, I never changed the hard parts.
 
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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Ryan
It may end up being a short cut that leads to other problems. If you pull it out now and look at everything, you may find that the two bearings need to be replaced.... maybe not!
If these bearings were to fail, the gear set and bearings alone run about $1,100 or so.
Now add set-up time labor to this and maybe a gear case.

The worst part of it is safely removing the four cap screws. Use heat on the gear case before trying to remove them.


BlueLightSpecial,
There is no re-shimming required if:
  • you do NOT loose any of the shims for either side of the steel BB shoulder, or the small bearing pre-load shims.
  • the seal surface washer is NOT replaced.
  • the two tapered roller bearings are NOT replaced.
  • gear back-lash is NOT re-adjusted.
If these aren't changed you don't need to worry.
Pull it apart, keep track of all shims and you should be good.


You'll be OK wtih the 280!
But if the 275 is an "A" transmission, then the preload is crush sleeve controlled and the procedure changes a bit for this one.
If any shimming does need to be changed it's not all that hard to do.
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Thanks for the responses. I will look at the book and see if I have the ability to pull it all apart.
How about the clamps on the bellows. Where is the best place to put the screw of the clamp at top bottom or side?
How about parts for 275. Every site has 270 and 280 but no 275. Are they the same?
Thanks
Ryan
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Sorry I have a 1986 bayliner with an aq225e engine and 275 outdrive
 
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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

270 280 275 the tear down is basically the same.
Just heat the main case at each threaded area before you try to remove the four cap screws that hold the clamping collar to the case. If these are hard to get out you might round out the hex sockets. Then a machine shop will be machining the bolts out on a milling machine. By drilling you might damage the bolt head shoulders of a $400 clamping collar.

When it comes to parts use the model number.
 
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Volvo Mike

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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Good link Mike. That should get him what he needs.
FYI: The 275 .pdf schematic view is correct but the 275A .pdf schematic view is incorrect. It shows the steel bearing box. The 275A uses the aluminum BB.

With V-8 power I'd sure suggest that you tear it down and look at the main drive gear bearings, and be sure to look at the brass wear ring [aka split ring keeper]. With V-8 power running the DP or LH prop these will stretch more than with the 4 cylinder engines. When it goes the vertical shaft can shoot out the top of the case.
I have access to custom made stress proof steel keepers if interested.
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Okay so its clear I should pull the Upper Gear House apart to check everything. I pulled it off once to fix a bellow so I know how to do that part. Once I have it off, I remember the 4 allen bolts you are talking about. I get those out and then the yoke and other parts will come out? If I do not replace anything, do I have to worry about any special tools or anything if I put everything back the way it was? I am pretty mechanically inclined, but have never gotten into gear housings before so am not sure. Also, the boat is a 1986 but only like 190hrs. Another thing I did get water in the oil from the bellow leak. Anything else I should check? Sorry new to boat ownership. Bought it last year and want to have it running good in the summer, which it obviously did not do last year.
Thanks again,
Ryan
 
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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Ryan, no special tools are needed other than a fixture to hold the vertical shaft while working.
An extra spline coupler welded to a peice of angle iron then clamped in the bench vice works for this.
You'll need a spring scale if you readjust the rolling torque.

Here is how this was explained to me several years ago.

Any AQ series transmission that uses the steel bearing box.
When the clamping collar and bearing box have both been removed (as one unit), you'll see how the male yoke is attached by a single cap screw fastener. Remove this, and the yoke and u-joint assembly will pull from the gear.
Watch for the small shims inside of the seal surface washer. These control the rolling torque value.

Keep track of the shims for and aft of the steel collar of the BB. These control the depth of the main drive gear, and the squeeze of the clamping ring/collar against the main case.

If you make no changes, and reuse the seal surface washer, it all goes back together without change to any pre-load or gear pattern.

If you are comfortable, you can increase the rolling torque for "run-in" bearings by removing .001" or so of the small shim pack. Check torque.... re-shim if needed.

You can also decrease excessive back-lash by moving .002" or so from the aft side of the BB shoulder over to the FWD side of the BB shoulder. The collar squeeze should remain unchanged.

You can decrease the shim value between the two driven gear bearing retainers and the gear case by .002" or so.
Whatever amount you remove, you must add the same shim value underneath the top cap and above the Intermediate housing.
There is no special trick to it..... It's just math.

Now reassemble and do a gear pattern check.
Best if you have hypoid gear experience for this.

Or leave as is and just replace the seal but make sure that the seal surface is OK.

If the seal surface washer or the two bearings are replaced, the rolling torque value must be adjusted.
Check gear pattern again.... adjust BB depth (gear depth) and collar squeeze if need be.
 
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PiratePast40

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I'd advise a pressure test prior to pulling the upper gearbox. That way you'll know for sure about bad o-rings, gaskets, and seals before you have everything all back together. It only takes about 10 or 15 minutes and you have to buy or put together a rig for doing the testing after reassembly anyway. If you're going to completely reseal the drive then it's a mute point but otherwise it seems like cheap insurance.
 
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rleip21

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

Thanks for all your help. I appreciate it. For parts to get before hand I know to get a bellow, 2 cross pieces, and sealing ring. Anything else. Also do I need to pull the shift mechanism to get yoke out or just the front clamp ring.
 
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billbayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

rleip21 said:
For parts to get before hand I know to get a bellow, 2 cross pieces, and sealing ring. Anything else. Also do I need to pull the shift mechanism to get yoke out or just the front clamp ring.
Click to expand...
See post 15 again. And by all means use this info as a supplement only to the service manual instructions as for gear pattern, torque, and rolling torque specs, and any other dimensions, etc.

I think if you're going into this far you may as well replace both seals [main drive gear & eccentric piston seal] top cover gasket, red phenolic fill plug gasket, hollow bolt O-ring, shift mech O-ring, seal surface washer O-ring [small one at fwd side], both BB O-rings [2 of these]. [you will remove the shift mechanism to replace the eccentric piston seal]
Don't forget how important it is to check the brass wear ring. The service manual will give you a max dimension [between the top nut and bearing] to check against. Too much clearance usually means that the wear washing is expanding.
Put the washer in the jaws of your caliper, hold it up to a light and check. The sides should be parallel to each other.

Don't let it intimidate you. These are among the easiest transmissions to work on.
 
7

74bayliner

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Re: 275 out drive ujoint question

There is a Youtube Video of a Gentlemen i believe he made it for Iboats...

It is a Volvo 280 (from what i know the top gear boxes are pretty similar to reseal...) and resealing will not cost 400 dollars, more like 70 dollars and some time... , its simple you can do it yourself even if you are not mechanically inclined (i wasnt) but this gentleman shows it really well so you can just watch it while you are working... he did the disassembly all in one day..

The Complete Upper Seal Kit comes with everything you need to reseal the upper gear box, minus the shims... You shouldnt need to mess with the shims, just make sure you put them back where they came from most of them come out fine, mine were hard to see, i didnt know there were shims until i read the manual that Don Posted..

Iboats link to Upper Gasket Seal Set
http://www.iboats.com/Upper-Gearcas...4304882--**********.329220579--view_id.172815

Good luck
 
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