3.7/488 Help - problems with camshaft - speedi sleeve didnt work

[searcyfarms]

Greetings All,

So, the famous pitted camshaft has finally gotten the best of me.....I have attempted the speedi sleeve repair only to last a couple yrs then back in same boat pardon the pun......I know the boat is old, an 82 or 84 cant remember. Its a 488 - when running runs great - Boat is a one owner - been kept inside so its in excellent condition so that is the ONLY reason I am looking to attempt repairs. At this point its a paperweight. SO - do I need any special tools to get the thing apart, any notables to be aware of regarding tearing down to get the camshaft out?


I have taken it down this far 4 times now replacing camshaft seals pulling the harmonic/stator thing off the crankshaft with a puller, blah blah so I am at least good at tearing that piece down.

I am aware of timing of cam/crank things in engines, I know the distributor will probably have to come out? Try to make note of that of course.

I have taken apart a few car engines back in the late 70s/80s and replaced parts but this seems a little daunting/overwhelming for some reason. There seems to be lots of big chunks of intake/exhaust/water tank manifold thing, shifting cables look overwhelming with those and wires. I have found a water pump gasket kit.

I found a couple camshaft kits with lifters. I only see two offerings of camshafts/kits. Before I indulge and bite the bulled I want to get the dang thing apart to see if I think I can get the thing back together. I am concerned that bolts may not come out and I break things. Yes I am in over my head but hate to spend 3 grand for a replacement engine and don't think I could that either.

SO....I see panther sales and falcon marine make the camshaft kits, I know NOTHING About either place but due to all the failures of the original camshafts and pitting I sure as the world wont be putting in a used one. Do any of you have any experience or recommendations on camshaft kits for these engines? panthers or falcon longevity, reliability, are they an oem grind?

I also read something about how the end of the camshaft is made and the impeller mounting etc.... mine is a ground end with two squared off sides and internally threaded end that a bolt w/washer goes in that holds on the impeller has that changed?

I only put about 20 to 30 hours a year on my boat so it doesn't get a lot of use. I presume manifold gaskets are available ? I am going to need various ones obviously - no clue just what yet but presume both intake/exhaust - head - that huge water manifold thing where it bolts to the engine - any other ideas what I might need, does anyone sell a kit for that stuff?


How about all this shifter stuff - cables/wires, can I leave it intact and just take the entire bracket off and leave it together and set it aside?

I live in the Kansas City Missouri area so anyone that wants to help C'mon over LOL!!!!

Thanks in advance for any advice/info - is there a good book that you would recommend for taking this thing apart and getting it back together?

Robert

 

[kenny nunez]

Removing the shift plate makes it easier since you just have to disconnect the shift interrupt circuit.
If you pull the cam you should check the front cam bore, it may be possible that if that area is worn the cam is lower in the block causing the leak. Hopefully that is not the problem. I have seen where rust had built up under the speedy sleeve causing it to not seal anymore.

 

[stonyloam]

That sure is a lot of work, I would take it apart and look at the sleeve. If it is in good shape, just replace the seals. Are you putting the seals in correctly? BOTH seals ( garter springs) should face away from the block. If you feel you must replace the cam, seems like you should be able to do it by: take off the valve cover, loosen the rockers and remove the push rods (keep track of which hole they come out of), pull out the lifters, remove the distributor and fuel pump. Once you remove the timing gear and chain the cam should come out. BUT once you have the new cam in you will need to check the push rod lengths to make sure you have the correct valve lash. Again I would just replace the seals. Take a close look at where they are riding on the sleeve, could be that one is riding close to the edge and getting torn up. Make sure the outside edge of the leave is not sharp and damaging the sleeve when you slide it on. Good luck.

 

[stonyloam]

That is make sure the outside edge of the sleeve is not sharp, damaging the seal when you slide it on. Could not edit above

 

[searcyfarms]

I think the speedi sleeve is a pitb to try to get in the right spot and then not damage the seal when you put it back together, they should make a sleeve in that diameter that is long enough to run the entire length of the shaft rather than trying to hit an area that is so tiny - and then trying to get the driving lip off after you have gotten it in the right spot and not move it is another issue - crappy way to try to cobble up a fix if you ask me so I am sure that is why mine only worked for a little while, I am sure I damaged something trying to get things perfect in there. I am going to do the cam period, valve lash shouldn't be a problem, I can get the rockers down enough to deal with that I would imagine. going with new lifters as well and have always ran 40wt VR1 high zinc oil in it since it was new - I don't anticipate anything else wrong in there. IF I could find a sleeve to go over the end of the shaft that is long enough to cover the entire thing I would consider that but no one seems to have that.

I did put the seals in both facing away from the block - I am good at taking it apart I have had the dang thing apart 4 times now - I think I found a guy that might do it for me and has done several with total cam replacements. He says Comp Cams makes a kit for that engine that he uses and I have used comp cams and they are good.

Hopefully it all turns out good.

R

 

[stonyloam]

I think some of the folks have used two sleeves to cover a wider area, and some have had the end of the cam welded and machined back to spec . The rockers are fixed when you torque them down. The valve lash is set by using different length pushrods. There is a tool for compressing the rocker arm and the procedure for how to do the job is in the manual. There are 4 or 5 different length rods. Your local Ford dealer should have them. They are for a 460 Ford V8. The first seal (farthest from the block, in contact with the coolant) is the most critical. Good luck

 

[searcyfarms]

thanks, I will definitely keep you all posted and I will gladly purchase whatever is needed for the valve lash to be good, if I remember right, the valve lash is determined by there being no detectable play in the push rod where when the push rod comes down against the rocker but its not too tight and you can still spin the pushrod with your fingers - that's what I remember from what my dad told me...........I learned things from him but never been in a boat motor so same principles but just not familiar with all the water stuff and shifting and wiring to know what I am in for so getting some help -

 

[stonyloam]

Not in a 470. You put in a pushrod, turn the engine until the valve is fully closed, then you use a tool on the rocker to collapse the lifter and measure the gap between the lifter arm and the valve. If the gap is too big you put in a longer rod, too little a shorter one. Yeah PITA. READ THIS THREAD : https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-rod-questions post #3 if you rebuild your cam seal surface you don’t need to mess with that, just put the pushrods back into the holes they came out of. If you put in new lifters you should probably check the lash.

 

[searcyfarms]

oh ok gotcha, yea I did just that when I had to replace a head on my 400 ford engine back when I was a kid, made sure I kept the push rods in order, even the ends that ran against the lifter vs rocker and put them back in the same way - so just take out the cam and have it resurfaced? that what you are advising? why did these fail so often and get pitted, poor metal when manufactured ?

 

[stonyloam]

Could be that the surface is not hardened and it will groove under the seals. When I did mine it was pretty good, so I did not use a sleeve, has been holding fine for 10 years. It should not have pitted unless at some time it was run with water instead of antifreeze and rusted. Some have talked about sending the cam out to be resurfaced on the end, but most have just used sleeves. IMO take the covers off and take a look. See if there is anything obvious that caused the failure. Make sure that the first (outside) seal is riding on the sleeve, that is the seal that seals in the pressurized coolant. The second seal just keeps the unpressurized coolant that gets past the the first seal out of the crankcase and it just leaks out of the weep hole. Could be that the first seal was not on the sleeve. You gotta take that apart anyway no matter what. Let us know what you find.

 

[searcyfarms]

I have the thing apart again..........its all pitted, I removed the speedi sleeve, I tried putting two of them on there and it was a pain, trying to get that narrow band lined up on both of them then remove the driving lip and not moving them etc.... difficult to say the least - so does the head have to come off to replace the cam or can you magnetically remove the lifters up through the head and the slide out the cam?

 

[stonyloam]

I don’t think the head needs to come off. There is a side cover on the intake side that should allow access to the lifters.

 

[Scott Danforth]

keep the lifters marked as well as the pushrods.

 

[searcyfarms]

anyone know if the intake has to come off to get these out, I am thinking I have to remove valve cover/rockers/pushrods going to have to remove the big sprocket on the end of the camshaft and note timing marks on crankshaft/cam gears - mark the distributor rotor and note position when removing, presuming since a ford design the end of the distributor shaft drives the oil pump ? have to get lifters up and out of the way to remove the camshaft possibly via access side panel?

so thinking I get all that stuff out of there - I can then remove the camshaft w/out removing the intake unless it covers up the side access cover some how, haven't looked at it that close yet cause my tractor/till broke, ( got that fixed ) now my driveshaft went out of my deere compact tractor so googled that and have it in a million pieces and trying to get it done, grass is growing with a vengeance !!!!!

so anyone ever done this and know if I need to remove the intake? not sure I will have to remove the shift linkage or not like I said haven't gotten that deep.....

 

[kenny nunez]

There are 2 bolts under the intake manifold that have to be removed to get the manifold off. To get the lifters out removing the manifold will help.Check the shoe that runs on the timing chain for wear.

 

[searcyfarms]

ok I was just thinking if I could slip the lifters up high enough to clear the cam lobes and slid it out the front I could avoid getting the manifold off and buying another gasket - I have decided against taking the lifters out since I have no other noises or issues and I would have to deal with lash stuff if I did which I don't have the tool for - I don't know what it looks like in the side there under that cover and what it will allow for getting the lifts up high enough to clear lobes - magnets n rubber bands might hold them up if I can get them up a little to clear per my wise neighbor and his 2 cents

 

[Scott Danforth]

Mark the push rods, mark the lifters.....

Remove them

Pull cam

Take to machine shop

Machine shop welds cam snout and machines

Pick up from machine shop

Install cam

Install lifters and pushrods

 

[searcyfarms]

I had considered that but due to the fact the cams are prone to this I am questioning the metal integrity and if I have it worked by a machine shop and put a 40yr old cam back in I might risk more cam issues or lobe issues so thinking maybe a new cam is in order

 

[searcyfarms]

tractor ujoints out got that in a million pieces - back to this in a week or so Grrrrrr - u know the drill, rains/pours