33 hp Johnson no spark

[Elky]

Evenin' everybody. I have a 1965 33 hp Johnson, no spark. It's a model RXE-13B. Poking around the Iboats forum, some are saying if the two black wires from under the flywheel are not grounded, the coils will (should) operate. Grounding them makes the magneto coils inoperative. With those two wires floating, i.e. not connected to anything, still no spark. Would it be safe to say there's trouble under the flywheel - points, bad coils, etc?

 

[racerone]

Pull the flywheel with a puller using the 3 threaded holes.----Bolts are to be 1/4-20NC thread.--------You will find 2 old cracked coils.----Or new replacements already there if it was a recent runner.----If there are new replacements just clean breaker points and check for spark.

 

[Elky]

Thank you, racerone. I'll bring home a puller from the shop tomorrow and see what's there. Will let you know.

 

[Crosbyman]

black wires probably going to safety features ex: round vacum cut out or neutral safety feature


grounding the wires kills the points/sparks so leave them ungrounded for now

 

[Elky]

Good Morning! From what I've read, (and racerone), I figured as much, Crosbyman. In doing so, still no spark. I'll see how things look under the flywheel this evening.

 

[Elky]

To racerone & Crosbyman, I pulled the flywheel, came away quite nicely, thank you racerone. The coils are the familiar green style seen on many vintage (and not so vintage) OMC engines. Couldn't tell if they were original, but they appeared to be (physically) in good condition. The primary winding measured about 0.5 ohm with a Fluke 29. Pretty good meter, though I prefer an old Simpson 260 - but a 260 won't accurately read such low numbers. From what I've read, this reading (0.5 ohm) is a bit low. Some say 1 to 1.5 ohm is more common, but I hesitate to condemn the coils yet. The secondary from the hi voltage pin to either primary wire measures about 3200 ohms, typical from what I've read. I could have sworn I read open circuit from the spark plug connector back through the plug wire to either of the primary connections (not the 3200 ohm, as should be) - but upon rechecking, all was correct. These appear to be actual wire type plug leads - not resistance wire. The points look ok and functional. I've got to go out of town for a couple days, so I'll check, clean and set the points perhaps this weekend and see what results, and let you guys know. Thanks for your help.

 

[F_R]

Use that Fluke to measure the resistance across the points. should be zero Ohms when closed---not an Ohm or two---zero. And infinity when open. These assume the coil and condenser are disconnected from the points.

 

[Elky]

Will do. Will post results this weekend

 

[Elky]

Good Morning! Last Sunday, I gave a close inspection to the points. Interesting to note, they looked fine, but had no continuity when closed. Burnishing, still no continuity. I finally used some #120 cloth to "break the glaze" (or whatever it was), and they checked fine. Put the flywheel on, got plenty of hot spark. And, in a barrel of water, the engine ran fine! I will of course, replace the points, and condensers. Thanks to racerone, Crosbyman and F_R for your help and suggestions.
Allan (Elky)

 

[racerone]

Over time oxides will accumulate on the breaker points.----Many oxides do not conduct.----Cleaning will restore spark on these simple magnetos.----Much better for those that want to learn simple repair / maintenance.----Others want modern stuff that can only be maintained with an empty wallet should there be a failure.

 

[racerone]

Also these magnetos will hint that it is time for some TLC -----Harder to start , running on 1 cylinder at times would tell a observant owner to do a bit of work at no expense.

 

[Crosbyman]

Good Morning! Last Sunday, I gave a close inspection to the points. Interesting to note, they looked fine, but had no continuity when closed. Burnishing, still no continuity. I finally used some #120 cloth to "break the glaze" (or whatever it was), and they checked fine. Put the flywheel on, got plenty of hot spark. And, in a barrel of water, the engine ran fine! I will of course, replace the points, and condensers. Thanks to racerone, Crosbyman and F_R for your help and suggestions.
Allan (Elky)

great news ...thanks for the feedback

 

[lindy46]

Good Morning! Last Sunday, I gave a close inspection to the points. Interesting to note, they looked fine, but had no continuity when closed. Burnishing, still no continuity. I finally used some #120 cloth to "break the glaze" (or whatever it was), and they checked fine. Put the flywheel on, got plenty of hot spark. And, in a barrel of water, the engine ran fine! I will of course, replace the points, and condensers. Thanks to racerone, Crosbyman and F_R for your help and suggestions.
Allan (Elky)

If you now have good spark and the motor runs good, I wouldn't replace the points. IMO, clean old points are better than the new points they are selling nowadays. In fact I have "refurbished" a bunch of old points I had on hand and I will use those for future repairs rather than buying new.

 

[kbait]

+1 with lindy^

 

[jimmbo]

New Points have a smoother contact area, and are much easier to gap in a consistent manner. Filed points are a lot rougher, and can result in a gap that is different than the what the Feeler Gauge measures. Filing also removes a Harder Surface, exposing a softer surface which erodes faster.

 

[Elky]

Good Morning, jimmbo. I thought there was a plating or harder material on the surface, though what lindy46 says has merit. Today's parts likely won't hold a candle to those of yesteryear. I've spent 30 years in the appliance repair business; I see it every day.
The idea here was to make sure the engine ran and had no issues, as I wanted to sell the boat & motor. I listed it on Marketplace and described my work. When it sold, I told the buyer what I had done to get spark, and suggested to him that he may want to address the points issue, and check the lower unit, clean the carb, and other routine things.
Interesting to note here, the boat, motor and home-made trailer sold in less that 30 minutes.
I thank you guys for your experience and help. I also have a '77 Johnson 70hp three cylinder on a tri-hull, which I love; what a sweet outboard. I expect that when I have questions, I'll be back.

 

[racerone]

There are many folks who embrace older motors.------Parts are cheaper.----But you have to take the time to learn how to maintain these motors.-----They are sweet running motor when in good condition.

 

[Elky]

Good Afternoon, racerone. I have a friend from high school (class of 73!) who "treated" himself to a new 15hp 4 stroke "Evinrude". He ran it twice, gave it to his daughter, and clamped his vintage 70's Evinrude 15hp back on the transom. I got quite a laugh from that.

 

[Crosbyman]

new 4 stroke evinrude ???

 

[Elky]

Brand new. From BRP. Beautiful machine, lots of nice features. Quiet. He found parts hard to get (he wanted some gas line fittings) and the dealer couldn't seem to help. (This was during the beginning of covid.) Anyway, he decided that he liked his old 15 better. I have to admit, I didn't care for the styling - the BRP looked like a pumpkin on a stick.