40hp force starter repair info

[byrxt]

Hello, I am new to this forum but have used the information I have found on it to help with a couple of issues I have had with my Force motor. I have a starting issue and have done several of the test/suggestions posted. My problem is the starter will not engage. There is a "clicking noise when I turn the key and you and see slight movement in the starter bendix. The problem was intermitent for a while, I would cycle the key on and off a few times and then it would start, but now it has finally quit. There is still the clicking sound and starter "bump". I have tested the solonoid switch by jumpering it and believe it is not the problem. I have ensured my battery is good and that the connections to the battery are clean and tight. I have even tried a different battery which was well charged. The motor is a 1998 I believe. I have owned it for four years now and have not had any problems until this year. So I believe I need another starter but reviewing the costs I have found on line, I am leaning towards rebuilding it. Can anyone out there walk me through the process and what I need to get to do it to rebuild the starter?

 

[JB]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Howdy byrxt.

Welcome to iboats.

Sure sounds like current limiting to the starter. When you cleaned up the connections to the battery did you also disconnect and polish up the other ends of the cables, where they bolt to the engine block (-) and the solenoid (+)?

The connection of the battery ground cable to the engine block is by far the worst offender when this happens. Bolting a tin plated copper cable end to an alloy block with a steel bolt is a guaranteed spot to corrode eventually. When it does, it is invisible and the connection stays tight. It just won't pass enough current to operate the starter (or, usually, the PT&T motor).

Good luck.

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Thanks, I have not cleaned the cable ends at the engine block. I just made sure they were tight. I have read many posts about ensuring a good ground but have been tackling one step at a time. I have to remove the starter now and that will give access to those connections.

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Well I have had no luck with any of the suggestions in the forum. Let me walk you through what I have done: I took off the starter and bench tested it with a fully charged battery and jumper cables as directed by one of the posts I read and it worked. It spun and the bendix came out as expected. I then took off the starter solenoid and cleaned all the terminals and cable connections. I took off the engine block ground(s) and did the same to them. In the process of removing the engine block ground I found the one of the connectors was broken completely free. It was the connector that has 3 small black wires connected to it. I could not trace all the wires to their components but it looked like two of them went to the spark plug coils and the other I am sure went to the starter solenoid. The engine always ran fine so it is a mystery about the coils wires but I thought I found my smoking gun problem with the black wire from the starter solenoid to the engine block ground and why the starter would not work. So I replaced the connector and made sure the connection was secure. After reinstalling everything, fully charging the battery and cleaning the battery cables ends, and hooking up the water hose, I tried to start the engine and once again all I got was clicking noises. I double checked all the wires to make sure I did not miss anything. I took a jumper wire and jumpered the solenoid and watched the starter tried to engage but all it would do was move just a hair with each click. Do I have a bad starter or solenoid? One post I read talked about a voltage drop in the solenoid preventing the proper amount of current getting to the starter. The starter did spin freely and easily when I connected it directly to a fully charged battery. Can anyone make sense of what the this and help me out? High and dry during prime boating time!!!

 

[fucawi]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Well of course you have not checked the conditon of the contacts inside the slenoid...you say shorted it with a bit of wire ....you need a spanner or screwdriver to handle the current ...go straight across the big bolts.. If it wont go then put a voltmeter across the starter .live bolt to motor case ....try again ..if you have 11 or more volts the motor is faulty ..probably the brushes ...when you had it off did you have a look at them and clean the commutator ? ( glass paper not emery ) ..did you test the starter with it vertical ?
If you dont have 11v at the starter check at the battery whilst you test the motor ..battery should not go below 11.5v. Now if battery is good and low volts at starter . put a vehicle jump cable from bat neg to starter case .....try again this will test the earth.. If still no go put a jump lead bat pos to the solenoid input and try again.

 

[wellsc1]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

If your Force is like mine, there's a fuse under the cowling. Follow the starter wire to it and check it for clean connections too. Here's a brainstorm idea... Try to turn the starter over for a little bit, then check for warm or hot connections. A bad connection heats up with current passing through it (the current squared times resistance equals watts).

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Thanks for the info. I will get out my voltmeter and take some readings. I did not have the starter in a vertical position when I bench tested it. I don't really know what the commutator looks like or where it is located. I will try some meter reading and then go from there. Thanks again. Ed
PS : I have tried turning the starter prior to using the key switch to "bump" it and it doesn't help. Also the starter casing doesn't get warm even after several attempts.

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Well I tried some voltage reading across the solenoid and this is what I got: Solenoid Switch wire from ignition switch to switch wire (ground)- 0 volts key off, 10 volts key to start position. Solenoid Terminal from battery to solenoid terminal to starter 12 volts with key On, Start, and Off. From battery terminal of solenoid to starter body- 12 volts. I thought it was odd that when measuring the voltage across the two large terminals of the solenoid that there was 12 volts with the ignition key on or off. One post I read said that if this was the case, then the starter was bad. I then took some battery jumper cables and went directly from the battery to the starter side lug of the solenoid using the engine ground and the starter spun and engaged with the flywheel. All connections are cleaned and tight. Battery fully charged. From the data that I just wrote I am still confused. I believe the starter needs rebuilt, but why did it engage when jumpered straight from the battery.

 

[fucawi]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

if you have 12v across the solenoid when in the start positon the solenoid is faulty ..bad contacts ....that is assuming it clicks when you activate it ...starter is not faulty you told us it cranked OK.

From what you say a spanner across the solenoid should set it spinning ..........

TEST DONT GUESS

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Try a bit of WD-40 or grease on the worm gear.under the bendix(just a bit).Too much will ruin it.
Takle it apart.Clean it and install the brushes backwards if needed.

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Thanks again this is very helpful info and I will obey. Ed. Wish me luck.

 

[byrxt]

Re: 40hp force starter repair info

Well today I got the new solenoid and installed it. Everything is working fine. I want to thank everyone who responded to my pleas for help with the starting issue. One thing I thought was odd is that the terminals are not labeled for the connections. Either it doesn't matter which end is up or I just got lucky. I hope to back on the water tomorrow. Ed