470 performance problems

SonnyOB

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Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
14
I have a 1983 merc 470. I replaced the fuel pump and rebuilt the carb. The boat starts up and idles fine. I put it an gear and accelerate and it will hold steady at around 10-15 mph. I don't know the rpms because the tach is not working right now. When I go to accelerate faster, it kinda chokes out and dies. If I feather the throttle a little it sometimes starts to accel more but ultimately dies, sometimes backfiring through the carb. It will always start right back up and will cruise just fine at around 1/4 throttle. Any ideas?
 

Oshkosh1

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Jun 8, 2009
Messages
968
Re: 470 performance problems

Was this the same reason you replaced the pump/rebuilt the carb?
 

SonnyOB

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Jun 8, 2012
Messages
14
Re: 470 performance problems

No, I just bought the boat in the spring and was told that all it needed was a battery and starter. I replaced both and it would not start. I checked for fuel and saw that it was not pumping. Replaced the pump and still didn't start but was now pumping. Pump was all corroded inside si I figured carb was as well. It was. Rebuilt that and it starts right up now.
 

keith2k455

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
558
Re: 470 performance problems

Is the engine up to temperature when this happens or cold? Easiest thing to rule out/take care of is proper choke operation. Try letting the engine warm up and see if the problem goes away...if it does your choke doesn't work and that maye be the problem.
 

fmalott

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Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: 470 performance problems

I have a 1983 merc 470. I replaced the fuel pump and rebuilt the carb. The boat starts up and idles fine. I put it an gear and accelerate and it will hold steady at around 10-15 mph. I don't know the rpms because the tach is not working right now. When I go to accelerate faster, it kinda chokes out and dies. If I feather the throttle a little it sometimes starts to accel more but ultimately dies, sometimes backfiring through the carb. It will always start right back up and will cruise just fine at around 1/4 throttle. Any ideas?
did you put the accelerator pump assembly back on right when you rebuilt carb that is one of the most common mistakes when people post about the same problem
 

SonnyOB

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Jun 8, 2012
Messages
14
Re: 470 performance problems

It doesn't matter whether it is cold or hot, still does the same thing when it is warmed up. I was out for an hour the other day cruising along at 10 mph and even after an hour, once you push the stick forward it dies. Also, I believe that I put the accelerator pump in correctly. When I push the stick forward with the engine off I can see it spraying fuel in the carb.
 

sambluckie

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Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
24
Re: 470 performance problems

I kinda had the same issues with my '85 470. The boat had only been used 3 times in the last 2 years when we bought it. Only had it a few months now. On our test drive the day we bought it, we got a few backfires through the carb when accelerating. Ran a few cans of seafoam through it, cleaned spark arrestor thoroughly, used midgrade gas and changed the spark plugs. Runs much better now. Have the rare backfire every now and then. Plan on a full tune up when I get a timing light and meter.
 

Oshkosh1

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Jun 8, 2009
Messages
968
Re: 470 performance problems

Pull the plugs..."read" them. Look to see if they're sooty.

With snowmobiles, I will pull them after a carb rebuild after it's idled & I'll go full throttle, kill the ignition, keep the throttle down until it comes to a stop. With that done, I can get a "snapshot" of how the mixture is WOT(or whatever setting you need to see)...as I never allowed it to reach the idle circuit. A better indication of what the motor is doing under that particular power setting. As long as you brace yourself...I suppose you can do it in a boat too.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
3,027
Re: 470 performance problems

Have you tried running it off a temporary, portable gas container. To rule any of those parts of the fuel system out, including water in your tank.

Do you have a fuel separator?

The 470 can easily blow head gaskets if it overheats, make sure the temp gauge is working and correct.
 

NHGuy

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May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: 470 performance problems

You probably ought to do the whole check up & set up on the motor as you were starting to hint. Check or change plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and timing. Check & set choke. Verify that choke opens fully when warm. Set idle mixture screws. Check for air leaks around carburetor base and intake manifold with a squirt of carb cleaner.
I know I make it sound trivial, and I know parts and tools have a cost. If you don't have a timing light they probably have rentals or loaners at chain auto parts stores. It's good to have a shop tach too, old boat tachs can be very wrong-I have had this fool me more than once.
I don't think I'd do that high throttle shut down thing, there's a possibility that the engine could diesel, which is running on without spark. That can happen if the combustion chambers have enough stored heat to ignite the fuel without spark, dieseling can cause engine troubles. When you shut down at idle with the timing right there is so little fuel that dieseling is not supposed to occur.
You would not get the spark plug analysis that the other poster recommended though.
It still would be a help to photograph the used plugs and post pics, lots of folks on here know how to analyze them.
 

NHGuy

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May 21, 2009
Messages
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Re: 470 performance problems

Hey eric, is that scene in your avatar around Buzzards Bay? I think not. I'm jealous just looking at that.
 

fmalott

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: 470 performance problems

Have you tried running it off a temporary, portable gas container. To rule any of those parts of the fuel system out, including water in your tank.

Do you have a fuel separator?

The 470 can easily blow head gaskets if it overheats, make sure the temp gauge is working and correct.

try what Eric said use a portable gas tank, the check valve in the fuel tank could be not working properly. when i bought my 1983 boat with a 470 years ago i had a fuel delivery problem boat started up fine but would not accelerate, after pulling out the gas tank and tested the check valve sure enough it was sticking not allowing enough fuel so i tested with out check valve and the boat ran great. replaced the check valve and all's good. so keep that in mind before you start tearing things apart
 

keith2k455

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
558
Re: 470 performance problems

You probably ought to do the whole check up & set up on the motor as you were starting to hint. Check or change plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and timing. Check & set choke. Verify that choke opens fully when warm. Set idle mixture screws. Check for air leaks around carburetor base and intake manifold with a squirt of carb cleaner.
I know I make it sound trivial, and I know parts and tools have a cost. If you don't have a timing light they probably have rentals or loaners at chain auto parts stores. It's good to have a shop tach too, old boat tachs can be very wrong-I have had this fool me more than once.
I don't think I'd do that high throttle shut down thing, there's a possibility that the engine could diesel, which is running on without spark. That can happen if the combustion chambers have enough stored heat to ignite the fuel without spark, dieseling can cause engine troubles. When you shut down at idle with the timing right there is so little fuel that dieseling is not supposed to occur.
You would not get the spark plug analysis that the other poster recommended though.
It still would be a help to photograph the used plugs and post pics, lots of folks on here know how to analyze them.

Sorry, I'm new to working on boats, but have been around engines for quite a while. I mentioned choke because that's what I'd look at first. Next step would be to do just what NHGuy says here. There's a chance that you also may not be getting enough fuel, but if that is the case I'm guessing the boat would still need a total tune up, so it's not money lost.

Beyond the tune up, to me it's pointing to your carb may need a good thorough cleaning. Water and gas do not get along well, and over time it's a good possibility that the carb is gummed up pretty good inside (gas left to sit turns gummy). I would go buy a gasket set, take apart the carb and clean thoroughly, re-assemble and install. I would do this after the tune up doesn't solve your problem and always be sure to run fuel stabilizer to prevent having this become a problem, because cleaning the carb is meticulous and time consuming.

For what it's worth, the only time I've seen a motor not getting enough fuel on a stock setup has been in my hot rod drag racing days. I had a Buick with a 462, 750 double pumper, cammed w/ ported heads and it would still turn 4000 rpm before the fuel pump couldn't keep up. I think your problem is elsewhere, but I have also been known to be wrong....
 

Oshkosh1

Ensign
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
968
Re: 470 performance problems

dieseling can cause engine troubles. When you shut down at idle with the timing right there is so little fuel that dieseling is not supposed to occur.
You would not get the spark plug analysis that the other poster recommended though.

I'm sure there's been THOUSANDS of instances where this has occured without damage...whenever the safety laynard is pulled, or a key is bumped accidently...this is EXACTLY what happens. My reservation at sea has nothing to do with the engine dieseling, rather the off chance of a bad exhaust flapper and water ingestion from the sudden deceleration(although it would have probably already manifested itself under normal conditions)...not really a problem @20degrees in 10" of powder.

I see no harm in it...it IS the only way to read the plugs at THAT particular throttle setting. Once you back down to idle...even for a few seconds...you're reading a different story.

Just another option...
 

SonnyOB

Cadet
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
14
Re: 470 performance problems

Pull the plugs..."read" them. Look to see if they're sooty.

With snowmobiles, I will pull them after a carb rebuild after it's idled & I'll go full throttle, kill the ignition, keep the throttle down until it comes to a stop. With that done, I can get a "snapshot" of how the mixture is WOT(or whatever setting you need to see)...as I never allowed it to reach the idle circuit. A better indication of what the motor is doing under that particular power setting. As long as you brace yourself...I suppose you can do it in a boat too.


I understand what you're saying here, however I cannot get to full throttle. It dies after 1/4 throttle. I will pull the plus and see what they look like though.
 

SonnyOB

Cadet
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
14
Re: 470 performance problems

You probably ought to do the whole check up & set up on the motor as you were starting to hint. Check or change plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and timing. Check & set choke. Verify that choke opens fully when warm. Set idle mixture screws. Check for air leaks around carburetor base and intake manifold with a squirt of carb cleaner.
I know I make it sound trivial, and I know parts and tools have a cost. If you don't have a timing light they probably have rentals or loaners at chain auto parts stores. It's good to have a shop tach too, old boat tachs can be very wrong-I have had this fool me more than once.
I don't think I'd do that high throttle shut down thing, there's a possibility that the engine could diesel, which is running on without spark. That can happen if the combustion chambers have enough stored heat to ignite the fuel without spark, dieseling can cause engine troubles. When you shut down at idle with the timing right there is so little fuel that dieseling is not supposed to occur.
You would not get the spark plug analysis that the other poster recommended though.
It still would be a help to photograph the used plugs and post pics, lots of folks on here know how to analyze them.

I'm going to check all of that as well as try running on an external tank. I installed a new fuel pick-up in the tank and there is no check valve in it. I know with cars that backfiring through the carb is usually indicative of an ignition problem. I have a timing light and a tach/dwell meter, so I will check that as well. I am trying to find the correct tune-up specs. In the service manual from the adults only section it shows point gap as .22, dwell at 28-34 degrees, and timing at 8 degrees btdc. I saw a different post on here with totally different specs for the same motor. Does anyone know what is correct?
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
3,027
Re: 470 performance problems

Timing has been changed to 4? in a TSB after the manual was created.

DonS posted the bulletin a short while back, I will see if I can find it and attach it here....


edit... Found the bulletin:
 

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