'76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

longjohn119

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Jun 22, 2009
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Shortly after rebuilding the carb in hope of making this unit cold start easier I was running full throttle when the engine started missing and on easing down the throttle completely died and wouldn't restart. Of course I figured it was something I had missed when doing the carb rebuild but after removing, disassembling, and remounting the carb 3 times and not finding any faults, I did some tyroubleshooting on the electrical side finding a weak ignotion coil on the bottom cylinder but after replacing it still no start. I suspected a reed problem and isolated it after squirting mix into the carb but getting no start and then squirting mix into the cylinder through the sparkplug holes and getting it to fire and die so obviously I wasn't getting fuel into the cylinder after the carbs. Tearing down the block revealed a broken reed block, and a cracked reed stop. Luckily none of the reed block pieces got into the cylinders or caused any other damage to the crankcase except the holding pin hole for the reed block on the cylinder side had egged out. I found a used reed block and have a couple of questions on repair

1. First and foremost I need to take care of the egged out hole for the holding pin. Would good ol' JB Weld and a jig to align the pin until it sets up do the trick? (Keep in mind it's a 33 year old engine that I paid $300 for)

2. Is there anything I can put on the cylinder side of the block to help hold the reed block in place and take some of the pressure off the JB Welded holding pin?

3. I don't exactly trust this Seloc manual, what is the best product to seal up the crankcase

4. Any other tips that might be relevant, again keeping in mind this is a 33 year old $300 motor (In other words putting in $300 worth of parts isn't feasible or very reasonable)

A less important question but one I would still like to answer and is directed more at you guys that work on Mercs for a living. I rebuild/replace large commercial refrigeration compressors under warranty which are very similar in nature to a two stroke motors. One of the things I have to do for warranty is do a failure analysis to help engineering locate any faults/weakspots in the design and manufacturing process so I would like to understand the 'failure mechanism' here. Personally I suspect the left top reedstop came loose and 'chattered' causing the initial crack to form around that screw hole causing the reeedblock to break away from the portion with the holding bolt going through the bottom cover of the crankcase. Since most of the reedblock was then floating it caused the pin on the block side to egg out. BTW I checked the crankshaft end play and it was OK. Also the motor was never over revved in neutral which I'm not sure is even possible with this motor due to the way the trottle and shift linkage is designed. I enclosed a few pictures of the reed block so you can see the damage yourself
 

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longjohn119

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Jun 22, 2009
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20
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Bump back to page 1

Aww c'mon guys, don't make me have to go through the embarrassment of going July 4th weekend with a freakin' '85 Force 15 on my boat ....
 

Chinewalker

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Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

I've never had a problem with broken reed blocks and I've built quite a few 20s over the years, including 25SS racing motors which use the same powerhead. Broken reeds, yes, but not blocks. I suspect yours was a fluke thing, not a common thing. Once the bolt is in place, the load should be taken up from the JB-welded alignment pin enough to hold just fine.
 

longjohn119

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Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
20
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Thanks for the reply Chinewalker, that's what I suspected and was hoping to hear. I got the motor cheap about 15 months ago because some kids jacking around at a dealer knocked it and 4 other motors off a stand. The only damage was some scratched paint and the rear corner of the cavitation plate knocked off which I covered with a 'whaletail'. I suppose the impact could have caused a crack in the reed block which slowly got worse. That would explain why it was getting harder and harder to cold start. I just want to get this thing going to get me through the rest of this season and maybe the next if the economy doesn't pick up

So the only other question I need answered is the proper product to seal the (gasketless) crankcase cover. It's all torn down, old gaskets and sealant removed and cleaned and the parts are on the way. All I need to do is finish cleaning the block and while I have it apart, clean up the lower cowling and mid-section while I have it all opened up and apart

I generally don't mind doing stuff like this, in fact it's kinda fun when there is no pressure to get'er done but I prefer to do it in the off season although as you know it seldom works out that way .... I had almost forgotten what an underpowered piece of crap that Force 15 was, most 9.9's would eat it up but what do you want for 200 bucks. At least it starts good and idles nicely and my neighbor is going to give me $300 for it as soon as I have the Merc going so I'll walk away with about what I have in it after using it hard for 4 seasons. Despite this oddball problem I really like this Mercury, it performed flawlessly for me all last year and even ran pretty good right up until 5 seconds before the reedblock broke. Luckily I was only a 1/4 mile from the slough I put the boat in and about 3/4 mile from the boat ramp itself so the good ol' trolling motor got me back

If I can get her going again for under 100 bucks which looks extremely possible, I'll have no real complaints and total of $400 invested in a motor like this isn't really all that bad IMHO. I may even get froggy and do a complete rebuild next winter just for a project
 

longjohn119

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Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
20
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Perhaps I can make it easier by telling what I have already and maybe someone can tell me which will (hopefully) work best

Permatex #1 (Which I'm pretty sure is a no-go) Permatex #2, Permatex Aviation #3, Permatex #9, and Permatex Hylomar Universal Blue
 

BR

Seaman
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
55
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Hi,
Don't know about Prematex products but I've used Loctite 515 or 518. There's a master gasket kit that includes a primer. Important thing is a flexible, solvent resistant anaerobic sealant. Compare specs, one of your Prematex products may work.

Good luck!
 

7920hpMercury

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
111
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

I have put a number of 20hp blocks together with Permatex 2, the stuff that always remains flexible and is not fiberous. Right now I am using a brush on non hardening gasket sealer from an auto store. I think Permatex 1 hardens and I would not recommend that. I have also gone to an outboard repair shop and bought a brush on gasket sealer that they were using for these blocks.

I have never seen a reed box fail like that. I would suspect some kind of installation error. Can you tell if somebody opened up the powerhead? I have stripped out the threads on reed boxes with that 3/8" bolt with a locking tab though :rolleyes: And the locating pin on the back side needs to be aligned. I think I would just get another reed box from a bad powerhead. Other than maybe slight wear from fretting, there is not much to go bad here.

Good luck and agree, just great motors!
 

longjohn119

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Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
20
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Nope, the Unit has never been cracked open unless they went to the trouble of repainting all the nuts and bolts. I know it's an oddball failure because I can find no other example of a failure like that which made it hard to pinpoint, especially after a carb rebuild (Broke on 3rd trip after rebuild) so naturally I thought I must have done something wrong causing it to not start. Also initially I took a look at the reedbox (What I could see of it) when I took the carb off to see if I could find something I did wrong and it looked OK. I wasn't until after I did a little divide and conquer troubleshooting and getting it to pop when I put mix in the spark plug holes but couldn't get it to start by squirting some mix into the carb. So I took the carb off again (About the 4th time) and it wasn't until I turn the engine over with the pull start then I could see the box move up and back down as #1 piston hit TDC

I already have a reedbox on the way out of a '75 which the seller checked to see if the reeds were still in spec and they are so I should be able to pop it right back in. Stioll I felt it wise to replace every gasket and give the block a good cleaning while I'm waiting for the parts to arrive

Maybe I should rename this thread:

If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all
 

longjohn119

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Jun 22, 2009
Messages
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Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

I thought I'd do a follow up for others who might have the same or similar problems ( I hate it when people don't come back and give what what worked for them)

I found a used reedbox assembly on eBay for 50 bucks in like new condition, spent another $26 on the gaskets and since one coil measured weak on a spark gap test I also got a new coil for 60 bucks

Everything went back together without any hitches, I just took my time, and torqued everything to spec ... While I was waiting for parts and since I had most of it tore down I removed the lower cowl, shift linkage, etc and cleaned up the mid unit inside and out real good and repainted the upper and lower cowl, cover and exhaust cover, nothing real fancy, just sand out the deep scratches, rough up the rest of the paint, prime and paint with .99 cent a can Walmart black spray paint ... Sure looks nice now, a couple of guys down where I fish thought I bought a different motor

I reassembled everything, put it in a barrel and she started on the 3rd pull, after it warmed up I had to set the idle speed screw out a turn and one half (I never touched it before this) a sign the reed block had been getting weak before I got the motor and someone had set the idle speed up to compensate. After I got it out on the water and adjusted the idle mixture I had to turn it out an addition 1/2 to 3/4 turns

The motor runs great now, starts easy and I picked up about 4-5 MPH and have a much improve idle .... Definitely worth the $150 bucks I had to put into it, this motor has years of life left in it and runs as good as new now

Thanks to all the people who offered me advice and filled in the blanks so I could do this only once and right the first time around ... and saved me from having to go the rest of the season with that doggy 15HP Force I will now put up for sale
 

Chinewalker

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Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

Sounds like you've got a winner! Those are good motors - I've got a few in my stable. DO make sure you stay on top of the lower unit oil - those gearcases are not the most robust units. If you get any sign of water intrusion then it may be time to replace some seals. I think that by 1976 they had the stainless steel driveshaft, so you shouldn't have the pitting issues common with the earlier 20s, but your seals are still 30+ years old...
 

longjohn119

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Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
20
Re: '76 Merc 200 20HP Broken Reedbox

I pull the lower unit, check the water pump and change the lower unit fluid once a month during the season, in fact I just did it again while I had the motor tore down for repair ... fluid is cheap and a quart will last all season even changing it once per month ... I had a problem with a little water getting in around the shift rod and replaced that seal last winter ..... If I decide to keep her for another season then I'll probably do a reseal on the lower unit this winter

You are correct, the driveshaft on this model is stainless steel and mine is in real good shape

Thanks again for the advice ... This is the single best forum for Mercury repairs on the Internet and I was able to find most of the answers I needed with the search function (learn it, know it, live it) and it allowed me to ask intelligent questions to fill in the blanks
 
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