'77 Johnson 70hp Stuck in forward

[Thirsty Endgrain]

New and first boat. 1964 Glasspar Seafair with a '77 Johnson 70hp outboard. Top cover says "Stinger 75", but tag says 70EL77S. Anyway.

Still haven't gotten it to start yet, PO said it runs. But I'm finding a lot of questionables. There are little bolts missing here and there, carb cover was uninstalled, on and on. Just replaced the throttle and shift cables yesterday hoping it would get everything into position to start successfully, and I'm finding that I can't get the thing out of the forward gear.

I've read that the engine has to be on to be able to get it in or out of gear, so do I just do everything else to get it started and then try to move the shifter into the correct position? Have the shifter cable itself unhooked in the engine compartment so I can have the throttle cable set correctly. Tried pulling on the shift lever (underneath carb) while turning the prop with my foot but no dice. Next thing was gonna be to drain lower unit oil and pull for inspection.

If that's the right path forward, is there any chance it's as simple as dropping the four bolts and pulling lower unit free? Or is there more to it? Thank you.

Added: Some more pertinent information I just thought of, PO had replaced water pump impeller and a couple of other things. I think I've read that sometimes folks have issues with shifting after lower unit removal and install. Does the lower unit have to come down for water pump service? If so maybe it was reinstalled in forward gear and not started after that? I think I'll pull the lower unit regardless, just have a looksee, replace the gear oil, so I know it's fresh.

While I'm in there, what other seals etc should I have on hand to refresh? This is my first outboard so I'm learning all about them through this one...

 

[racerone]

Your assumptions and ideas are just wild guesses.-----First check lower unit gear oil.-----And no this motor does not need to run in order to get it out of gear or to do the shifting.----Yes the lower unit needs to come off to replace impeller.-----And it takes more than 4 bolts to remove the lower unit !!----Don't spend any $$ on this motor without a complete evaluation..----Do a compression test first before you spend another $ on it.

 

[Thirsty Endgrain]

Yeah, I think a trip to the store for a compression tester is in order today. Good call, I need to see if it's even worth it.

Any ideas on why the shift lever could be stuck, and what my troubleshooting steps should be to address it? Check lower unit oil, and then? Thank you.

 

[jimmbo]

While the Engine, as mentioned doesn't need to be running to shift out of Gear, Shifting into reverse without the Engine running, or the Prop Shaft turning is not advised

 

[Thirsty Endgrain]

How safe is it to assume that's not the ideal color of gear oil?

 

[racerone]

It is rare for these to be stuck in forward.-----Some will argue , but I would take the lower unit apart for inspection.-----Any evidence that it hit a rock ?

 

[Thirsty Endgrain]

No damning evidence is evident. It looks like I'll be pulling the lower unit no matter what, the oil's pretty creamy, so looks like I'll don my snorkel and start diving. Doesn't seem like I'll be solving anything without it coming down. There's a sticky in the secret files with pretty good info, though I'm still a little shaky on how to disconnect the shift linkage under the carbs. Think I just need to stare at everything a bit longer.

If I had a few thousand extra I'd just buy another engine at this point, but, well, I don't. So onwards...

 

[jimmbo]

Needs to come apart, even if just for a Reseal

A Swivel Socket on an Extension usually takes care of the Shift Rod Connection

 

[racerone]

Look under the starter motor the find the special screw to take out.

 

[Thirsty Endgrain]

On it, thank you both. Looking for parts sources. Any favored suppliers for lower unit seal kits for this engine?

 

[jimmbo]

If you mean Brands? BRP(til stock runs out), and Sierra. I'm sure there are others
As where to buy? iBoats sells that stuff, or your Local Dealer

 

[Thirsty Endgrain]

Well I did the fun part where I found the problem. The guide that the shift rod passes through at the top of the lower unit, next to the water pump, had frozen to the shift rod. Took a lot of lube and whackin' (carefully that is, and removed from the gearcase) but I got it free.

Now my main question is, what should I do since I have this thing down? Which things should I seal? Where are the usual suspects that would allow gear oil to become creamy?

 

[jimmbo]

Driveshaft Seals under the water Pump, Seal/gasket on Bearing Housing under Water Pump, Shift Shaft Seal,. Gasket on Shift Shaft Housing/Guide you show in Pic, Prop Shaft Seals, Bearing Carrier Seal, Drain and Vent plug/screw seals