84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

[wcsd106]

Recently I had been having troubles with my 1984 Mercury 200HP V6 Outboard not going over 3400RPM. In the course of testing the stator, I found that the blue circuit had a break in it.

I ordered a new CDI Stator from Iboats. The salesman I spoke with said that I needed this stator after doing some cross referencing with CDI.

The stator arrived Thursday evening and I got it installed that night. I didn't have time to test, so I decided to give it a test today before going to the lake.

I have found that I am no longer getting spark to any cylinder. Since the stator is the only thing of the ignition system I have changed, I am assuming my problem lies there.

I tried to match the stator up the best I could to the position of the original stator. When I found I had no spark, I moved the stator one hole clockwise from original position. I still had no spark. I then moved the stator one hole counterclockwise from original position and still had no spark.

Not having a DVA meter is putting me at a distinct disadvantage, I know, but I have tested all leads with an Ohm meter and am getting the correct values per the CDI troubleshooting guide.

I have attached a photo of my original stator to help verify that I was sent the correct replacement stator as linked above.

If anyone has any ideas on why I am no longer getting spark I'm all ears.

Thank You.

 

[jmj120]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

I hope you get an answer, cause I'm battling the same thing with at 92 xr6

 

[j_martin]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

That's the correct replacement, It's a 9 amp stator. Stator position makes no difference, it just supplies power and not timing. Put it in it's natural position so the leads reach their destination easily.

Check the resistance readings of the stator compared to CDI's chart. I suspect it will be good.

Then disconnect the kill wire from both switchboxes. Be prepared to choke out the engine, or hang a test wire on the switchbox terminals for a ground to kill maneuver. Try starting it.

Did you take DVA readings on the original stator before replacing it, or did you guess based on symptoms?

One thing that's often missed is that if the starter is dragging, you won't get enough out of the stator to generate spark. If it fires, it'll run fine, however.

hope it helps
john.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Did you take DVA readings on the original stator before replacing it, or did you guess based on symptoms?
john.

Good advice as always, John. Thank You.

I did not take a DVA reading on the original stator before replacing it as I currently do not have a DVA meter or DVA Adapter. I have the all of the parts necessary to build a poorman's dva adapter except for the capacitor, but I have those on order and should be getting them sometime this week (hopefully)

The stator was replaced because the blue wire readings to ground were WAY out of spec.

I also tried, under advice, connecting a 12v light to a 12v power supply using the original stator's blue wires in series as the positive line to the bulb. The bulb did not light and I observed no measurable voltage at the bulb so I made the assumption that the blue windings had a break somewhere in them.

Once I get the DVA adapter built, I will be able to provide more information. In the meantime I am going to put the battery on charge to make sure it's topped off and go over my wiring one more time and clean the connections for good measure.

It just confuses the heck out of me that this thing had spark and would run, albeit not 100%, before replacing the stator.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

I had a few moments this evening to go over my stator installation. I am still waiting for the capacitor to be delivered to build my DVA adapter.

First thing I checked was the stator ground. I checked continuity and have a good connection to ground.

I then checked the rectifier. It is testing as good with continuity one way but not the other on each post.

I then pulled the two sets of red/blue wires away from the switch boxes and ohm tested them. They check out exactly according to spec.

I did not perform a load test, however, as I did not feel like pulling the flywheel again tonight to remove the stator and take it to my workbench.

After reconnecting the stator wires, I tried checking spark on Cylinder #1 again. With my spark gap tester set to "20" (Between 1/4 and 7/16 inch gap) I turned the motor over using my remote start switch and I had spark. It wasn't a bright blue thick spark but It was sparking across the gap.

I tested Cylinder #2 and found that I did not have spark on that cylinder.

As I was looking again I noticed that the red and red/white wires had accidentally been transposed when I reconnected everything this evening with the red wire being connected to the outer box and the red/white wire connected to the inner box. After noticing this error I disconnected the wires and put them back into their correct position.

Moving the red wires back to their correct positions brought me back to a no spark condition.

The fact that I did have spark at least for awhile this evening leads me to believe that the new stator is functioning correctly, though I will still perform a DVA test to confirm this.

As another note, removing the black/yellow kill wires had no effect on whether I had spark or not.

I had forgotten to remove the bias wire running between the boxes, but will do so next time I test the engine.

Is there any tests that can be performed on the switch boxes to determine whether or not they are still good?

Thanks again.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Per some advice I have received, I removed the bias wires from between the packs today and tested once more for spark. I still did not have spark. The battery is in good condition and was fully charged for all of the tests that are detailed below:

I finally got around to doing the DVA tests on the new stator today. The voltages are 100% within the specs put out by CDI.

I went on to do the resistance and DVA tests on the trigger. The resistance checks were fine, and the DVA tests were fine except for one bank.

White (Black Sleeve) to Purple (Yellow Sleeve) is only showing around 3v DVA when connected to the packs instead of the 4v+ that it should be according to spec.

When I removed the trigger wires from the pack as per the CDI instructions, all measured voltages returned to the 4v+ DVA like they should be.

According to CDI's troubleshooting guide, this indicates a bad triggering circuit inside the pack.

At this point, would it be wise to go ahead and order two new CDI switch boxes or is there any other tests that should be performed?

The cheapest I've been able to find the CDI boxes is around $130 each from an online retailer.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Update 7.19.10

Here are the tests that I have run on the ignition system. I am nearly 100% convinced at this point that I need a new set of packs.

1. Remove Kill Wire From Both Boxes: No Effect
2. Remove Bias Wires: No Effect
3. Check Resistance of Stator: Within Spec
4. DVA Test Stator: Within Spec
5. Inspected Flywheel: No Loose or Broken Magnets
6. Disconnected Yellow Wires from Rectifier: No Effect
7. Check Trigger Resistance: Within Spec
8. DVA Test Trigger: Within Spec
9. Remove Red Stator Wires From Pack: Good Spark

According to the Installation and Troubleshooting Guide sent to me with my new stator from CDI:

Disconnect the red wires from the packs and retest. If the problem is eliminated, and the DVA test above is OK, the pack is usually bad.

With the red wires disconnected, I am getting a hot blue spark jumping a 7/16" gap on my spark tester.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks as though I'm going to need packs at this point.

 

[achris]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Update 7.19.10

Here are the tests that I have run on the ignition system. I am nearly 100% convinced at this point that I need a new set of packs.

1. Remove Kill Wire From Both Boxes: No Effect
2. Remove Bias Wires: No Effect
3. Check Resistance of Stator: Within Spec
4. DVA Test Stator: Within Spec
5. Inspected Flywheel: No Loose or Broken Magnets
6. Disconnected Yellow Wires from Rectifier: No Effect
7. Check Trigger Resistance: Within Spec
8. DVA Test Trigger: Within Spec
9. Remove Red Stator Wires From Pack: Good Spark

According to the Installation and Troubleshooting Guide sent to me with my new stator from CDI:


With the red wires disconnected, I am getting a hot blue spark jumping a 7/16" gap on my spark tester.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks as though I'm going to need packs at this point.

I am so happy to see someone who knows how to test methodically and document results properly....

These test results do indeed indicate a set of new packs is required....

Well done, and keep up the great work...

Chris..........

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Chris thanks for the reply.

I am planning on getting the packs ordered sometime this week. I definitely appreciate all of the great help I've received here at iboats.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

Update 7.23.10

The new CDI Switch Boxes arrived last night and I was able to get them installed today.

Thanks to all who have helped me through these problems. I greatly appreciate the help and respect I've been shown since joining this forum.

With the new packs, I now have strong spark on all 6 cylinders.

I am anticipating an on the water test either this evening or tomorrow morning to see if the new stator and packs have eliminated the problem I was having with the engine not accelerating past 3400RPM.

 

[wcsd106]

Re: 84 Merc 200HP - New CDI Stator now No Spark

I finally got the new switch boxes installed yesterday. Ignition worked just like it was supposed to and I had a chance to get out this evening and give it a water test. The 3400RPM barrier is now gone... hopefully forever... and I came through this ordeal with a lot better understanding of my motor and how everything in my boat works.

I don't think this thread would have been complete without taking the time to thank everyone here at Iboats who has helped me. Without the help I have received here I'm sure that I would still be sitting wondering what was wrong with my engine.

I'd like to especially thank CharlieB, J_Martin, and Achris for taking the time to put up with my stupid questions and always responding with great advice.

I took a video on the way back to the boat ramp this evening that shows the boat running better than I've ever seen it run before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ0n3YPKFEw