90 Force 120 Trim/Tilt not working

[Tylerc420]

Hey everyone, ok.. long story short last year I was on my boat and I ran into a sand bar, didn't break anything or sound like it did as everything was running fine afterwards, but the next time i went to take it out though, the trim/tilt was having problems, it didn't want to go down all the way so my friend pushed it down, made a sound and since that day the trim/tilt no longer works at all...

I replaced trim and tilt motor
I replaced trim and tilt pump
I replaced starter solenoid
fluid level is full (30w oil)
trim and tilt switch on throttle has power
batteries are charged
have an extra relay and replaced both up/down relays to see if it was a bad relay but no.

when I try to trim up/down it does absolutely nothing, but i hear the relays clicking

any suggestions?

 

[Jiggz]

When running and you hit something hard, there are two things that could go wrong with the T&T. The shock absorber shaft is bent or the tilt cylinder shaft is bent. Both will prevent the T&T to work properly.

 

[Tylerc420]

When running and you hit something hard, there are two things that could go wrong with the T&T. The shock absorber shaft is bent or the tilt cylinder shaft is bent. Both will prevent the T&T to work properly.

Is there a way to check which ones are bad? or would you just replace them with new ones? also its just weird to me that the motor doesn't even make a noise, even if the T&T doesn't work wouldn't it still make the noise?

 

[Jiggz]

Anyways, check the circuit breaker is not tripped. If it is not, then check make sure the tilt cylinder and the shock absorber (similar to the tilt cylinder but do not have hydraulic connections) shaft is not bent. A bent shaft will prevent it from moving and can cause the motor to draw more current and trip the circuit breaker. Or it could hydro-lock the pump and motor. The least you can do if such is the case is to release the hydraulic pressure by loosening the hyd lines unless you have a bypass valve to drain it off.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Unhook the blue and green wires from the relays.
Touch them to a hot battery, one on + and the other on -
That should make the motor turn.
Try swapping the leads and see if that makes the motor turn.

 

[Tylerc420]

Anyways, check the circuit breaker is not tripped. If it is not, then check make sure the tilt cylinder and the shock absorber (similar to the tilt cylinder but do not have hydraulic connections) shaft is not bent. A bent shaft will prevent it from moving and can cause the motor to draw more current and trip the circuit breaker. Or it could hydro-lock the pump and motor. The least you can do if such is the case is to release the hydraulic pressure by loosening the hyd lines unless you have a bypass valve to drain it off.

Where would the circuit breaker be? And ok I gotcha, so the cylinder and shock absorber look identical but the cylinder has the hydraulic lines going to it and the shock absorber doesn’t have any?

 

[Jiggz]

It all depends on the type of T&T you have. If you have one that looks like this, then yes, the shock absorber is the one on the left. Note there are no hydraulic lines going to it unlike the tilt cylinder on the right.

 

[Tylerc420]

It all depends on the type of T&T you have. If you have one that looks like this, then yes, the shock absorber is the one on the left. Note there are no hydraulic lines going to it unlike the tilt cylinder on the right.

Ok yes that’s exactly what mine is, thank you.

 

[Jiggz]

The circuit breaker is located inside the engine cowling. And it looks like this. The color maybe different (usually black and red on Force) and it has a little tab on top for resetting. Usually, if it's tripped, this tab will be sticking out a little bit more. But that is really hard to tell so just make sure you reset it by pushing it down and it should stay down.

 

[Tylerc420]

The circuit breaker is located inside the engine cowling. And it looks like this. The color maybe different (usually black and red on Force) and it has a little tab on top for resetting. Usually, if it's tripped, this tab will be sticking out a little bit more. But that is really hard to tell so just make sure you reset it by pushing it down and it should stay down.

ok thank you, I’ll do that when I get home

 

[Tylerc420]

The circuit breaker is located inside the engine cowling. And it looks like this. The color maybe different (usually black and red on Force) and it has a little tab on top for resetting. Usually, if it's tripped, this tab will be sticking out a little bit more. But that is really hard to tell so just make sure you reset it by pushing it down and it should stay down.

Hey so the circuit breaker was tripped and yeah that’s my problem now... when I hold down the up/down button on the T&T it’ll trip after a second or two... what could cause that?

 

[Jiggz]

It it takes that long to trip, do you even hear the T&T motor turning over or rotating? If not it could be that the system is in hydrolock. The next step is to dismount the motor (this requires draining the fluid from the reservoir) from the valve body (VB, also pump body) and then try again. Dismounted, if the motor will turn without tripping the circuit breaker this means the system is in hydrolock. To unlock the system you will need to open and drain the lines from the VB.

With all hydraulic lines disconnected from the VB, try lifting and lowering the motor to see if there is any binding. If there is you might want to inspect the tilt and shock absorber cylinders for bent shaft.

Warning - reconnecting hydraulic lines is not easy as disconnecting them. To reconnect, you need to loosen the other end of the line to give you a little leeway to align the threads. It's really very easy to cross-thread the fittings so make sure you always hand start them before using a wrench. Again loosening the other end makes it easier to align.

 

[Tylerc420]

It it takes that long to trip, do you even hear the T&T motor turning over or rotating? If not it could be that the system is in hydrolock. The next step is to dismount the motor (this requires draining the fluid from the reservoir) from the valve body (VB, also pump body) and then try again. Dismounted, if the motor will turn without tripping the circuit breaker this means the system is in hydrolock. To unlock the system you will need to open and drain the lines from the VB.

With all hydraulic lines disconnected from the VB, try lifting and lowering the motor to see if there is any binding. If there is you might want to inspect the tilt and shock absorber cylinders for bent shaft.

Warning - reconnecting hydraulic lines is not easy as disconnecting them. To reconnect, you need to loosen the other end of the line to give you a little leeway to align the threads. It's really very easy to cross-thread the fittings so make sure you always hand start them before using a wrench. Again loosening the other end makes it easier to align.

I don’t hear the motor turning or anything, but I replaced the motor and the pump, I had to disconnect the lines to replace the pump, wouldn’t that drain itt and reset it?

 

[jerryjerry05]

You try the trick I suggested?
That bypasses all the wiring and breakers.
It will tell you if the motors good?
When you installed the new stuff did the armature end get wedged or binding?
That would blow the breaker.
If you break the front line, that will release the pressure and the pump should cycle.
Just be real careful as the oil's under a LOT of pressure and can hurt you.

 

[Tylerc420]

You try the trick I suggested?
That bypasses all the wiring and breakers.
It will tell you if the motors good?
When you installed the new stuff did the armature end get wedged or binding?
That would blow the breaker.
If you break the front line, that will release the pressure and the pump should cycle.
Just be real careful as the oil's under a LOT of pressure and can hurt you.

I haven’t yet, I tried it before but I think I did it wrong as I only disconnected the blue wire and had connected it to a positive wire from the battery. And when I installed everything nothing got wedges or anything. What’s the front line? And if I released the pressure would the motor move freely or would it be stuck where I released it at?

 

[Jiggz]

If you are not hearing the motor turn at all. Dismount the motor from the pump or valve body. There are only 4 screws holding it. Make sure you mark the mating surfaces for alignment so you can replace it in original position. Ensure the circuit breaker is reset. Now either have someone hold the motor for you or you hold it and then have another person turn the T&T switch either up and down. Does the motor turn at all. Any sign it is getting power like humming?

If there's none (no turning or humming), then it's an indication that the motor is not getting any power. You previously mentioned the relays are making clicking sounds and that the circuit breaker after a reset will trip after a couple of seconds. From these, I can tel the motor should be getting electrical power.

So there must be at least humming in the motor. If this is the case, try turning the motor shaft manually. Is it free moving?

Or if the motor turns over when not mounted, then it means the pump is either seized or locked. With proper size flat tip screw driver you should be able to easily turn the pump by inserting it in the same hole where the motor shaft goes in. If you cannot turn it manually, and it is brand new, most likely the pump is defective.

By the way, what happened to the old pump and motor unit? Why did you replace it?

 

[jerryjerry05]

The front hyd. line is the first line you see on the front of the pump body.
You release the pressure and the motor falls.
You can lift it with some difficulty.

 

[Tylerc420]

Ok so new thing... sent the motor I bought back and bought a new one so, I have the motor hooked up to the battery and it works perfectly fine, turns on for sure, doesn’t lift the motor though, the fluid (30w oil) i put in it leaks out of the top of the cylinder when it goes either way, up or down, would that cause it from going up/down? If so do I need to buy a new cylinder or just a gasket?

 

[jerryjerry05]

What cyl?? is leaking?

 

[Tylerc420]

What cyl?? is leaking?

It’s only got 1 cylinder correct? Trim cylinder. Shock absorber on the left side and trim cylinder on the right side?