93 Johnson Distress Call

[BOAT for the love of it?]

Not sure where to start but I have gotten myself into a jam helping my son with a '93 Johnson on his boat with all sorts of problems. It's a 40hp and I have worked through a dozen or so issues to figure out the lower unit wasn't performing right. When I took it apart to determine if I had broken gear or worn gear, I found a worn dog clutch but not enough I would say it's the problem. I think in the end it might have just been low gear oil. But here is the weird part, one of the parts that came out was a one-half metal ball from I cannot tell you. It came out as I was pulling out the dog clutch and the backward gear.... I mean I took this lower unit completely apart. SO, I put it all back together except for the metal ball. Still didn't shift well, so my son bought a lower unit on Ebay (which was completely useless, a story for another time). But it had new gears and when I took it apart, there was no metal ball. I took the gears, prop shaft, etc and moved them into my casing. BUT I lost track of what gear I was in and the length of the shift rod. I had a medical issue come up and I came back to this project after several months. Anyway, I thought I worked my way through my issues..selected a gear, measured for the shift rod (found the standard 21 23/32 in neutral...I dialed it all in. I go to turn the engine over (after 2 years) and it comes on after the 2 key turn...wonderful. I am a hero, not so fast and here is where I need the vast wisdom of this collective body cause I am about to blow this engine up. Neutral spins at a pretty good clip vs no spin. Forward no problem dialed in and moves. Reverse, no, it only goes forward. I cannot get the dog clutch to move while in the casing but works fine outside of the casing. The ebay casing is smaller and the guy drilled holes in it for only god knows. And he put the dog clutch in backwards. I thought because the dog clutch was in backwards was the key...but now that it is corrected, I have no clue. There is room in the casing and the parts are exactly the same as the old one...except there was that metal ball. So, I am open to some questions and some suggestions before I rip this thing down for what is going to be the 12th or 13th time.

In my shift dog shaft, there is 3 bb size bearings and then a spring. I was considering taking a bb out. Because this shifting is so tight, I am not sure the shift rod is able to pull and push it.

 

[racerone]

well---21 - 23/32" is wrong for that motor.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

you've got my attention. I have the service and maint guides, its not in there. Where can I find it? I went as far as setting the gear in neutral, measuring and dialing it in and trying it. we are talking the 2stroke, long shaft,

 

[racerone]

Good luck with it .----I know what a 93 model looks like and that it is a 2 stroke !!

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

I guess I could say neutral, and reverse are overrated. I only want to go forward anyway. but something tells me this short-sighted thought will only cause more work.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

racerone - I see you have told/explained/shared with many others 21 15/16 in neutral for the '90's Johnson shift rod length. If I get the length right and the I still have challenges with the dog clutch moving in and out of gear...no grinding of gears, there is no hint as to why its not happening...any additional suggestions as I nose dive into this.

 

[racerone]

These lower units are NOT robust.----Set the correct height.----Test shift.----Fill with best oil from factory.----Mistakes on these can be expensive !

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

Well, just wanted to thank you and close with good news. Set the height, set the remote throttle to neutral and I have it all working. I figured out part of my problem, I was just being stupid. The lower unit was never really in neutral. Everything is snug, which still bothers me with all the pre-oil/lube. It seems like it would move more freely but these are new gears and dog clutch. Once I was truly neutral, the remote control worked fine with the tight dog chuck and the correct shift rod height I am sure had a lot to do with it.

Anyway - Just wanted to pass on the closure and a big thank you for the help.

 

[racerone]

Did you check shimming of the new pinion gear ???-----Used the same shims as before with factory gears ?----You bought new gears online ?

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

No, no and no. Long story, but here's the short version. My son scooped up a cheap lower unit for parts or possible replacement. To my surprise that other lower unit had issues but it had newer looking gears and dog clutch. Since I couldn't use the lower unit as is, I pulled the gears and dog clutch. I measured them against one another, noticed the new unit had the dog clutch in backwards. So, I fixed it, then 'hell married' the process from there. I had nothing to lose. My lower unit was already beyond simple service, this other unit can't make matters much worse. It was try it or buy a new outboard. I figured use what I have and look for a wee bit of luck. I didn't even know there were shims, service and maint books don't talk about them. And neither talked about the proper way for the dog clutch to be assembled. I just get parts these days, original parts but no instructions. On a good note. Again, I appreciate your advice and assistance. It is very much appreciated.

 

[racerone]

These gears need to be shimmed for proper mesh.----Shims are clearly shown in parts books.-----Dealer has a shimming kit and can do the driveshaft / pinion gear in minutes.----Good luck with it.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

Thank you. I'm checking into this today.

 

[racerone]

These units are not robust !!----Gears / bearings on a 28 / 33 HP in the 60's were heftier than the needle bearings and teeth in these 40 / 50 HP ( propshaft rated ) motors.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

I've had a steep learning curve. So, I know there are shims in the gear box just didn't think about them being different thicknesses. But a number of things make sense when you talk about robust. I'm trying to see if I can get the instructions and use the shims I have from my original lower unit. Not that I'm cheap but like you said this boat isn't robust and I don't mind repairing and fixing and even throwing a thousand down to fix something your going to love...but I'm not in love with this setup like I thought I would be.

 

[racerone]

Sometimes folks do not have the time to do it right the first time.-----But always find the time ( money ) to do it over again.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

I hear you loud and clear. Do the right thing right! I'm going to get there, no short cuts. I've already put a few thousand into this restoration. I'd like to make it in the water this year but time is slipping away in my effort to do this right. I'd like one thing to be simple but this experience tells me until I become experienced this is not going to be simple.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

Well, I failed my dry dock water test even after shim verification. I found a couple of things - my forward thrust bearing is damaged. My bearing housing assembly that holds the drive shaft isn't the right one and is locking in the drive shaft so that I cannot tell which gear I am in. So, the prop shaft spins freely but the drive shaft was doing nothing in neutral. And lastly, I think I have the dog clutch is in backwards myself. I believe because it didn't match up with my old setup, I assumed it to be wrong. I think the previous owner (who will not answer my calls) flipped the dog clutch and somehow used this 1/2" bearing to make things work enough. I am looking at a parts catalog and the long side of the dog clutch clearly is on the forward side of the gears and I have the short side (pretty sure). I have to pull everything apart today for verification. The thrust bearing and bearing housing assembly I caught yesterday and corrected. But the dog clutch, an old timer that sells lower units told me it sounds like I have it backwards and proceeded to try to sell me a lower unit for $1.8K (a rebuild of course) but was kind enough to help me verify the rest of my setup.

so, today, I rip the lower unit down and look at the dog clutch and check remote throttle setup for reverse. I'll check back and let you know how I do, because right now any reading this is laughing their a** off.

 

[BOAT for the love of it?]

I finally figured it out. I am mainly posting to help someone else that might run into these issues:

• If you ever do a complete tear down of your lower unit and come across, one, 1/2" metal ball. In some cases, you can look at the parts listing and see if it is a standard part with a home for your model. In my case, its NOT. The metal ball was being used to help position the shift lever (the fork) into the shift cradle which controls the shift dog, to the clutch dog. The metal ball basically pushes the metal tongs of the shift lever out so they can drop into the slots of the shift craddle.
• I found when reassembling the gears, when you go to put the propeller shaft with the clutch dog, shift rod and shift craddle make sure you have the shift rod fully extended to forward (even with the boat in neutral). What is going to happen. After you put the propeller assembly in, you have to push the shift rod into the shift craddle. In doing this, the propeller assembly with drop into neutral...don't play with it - screw in the shift lever screw. NOW you can play with the shift rod to make you can get to the three gears but make sure to leave it in the position the remote throttle is in.
• The shift rod length was 21 15/16 in neutral. If you have to move things around in the slightest to get the pin in - you are not at 21 15/16 - center of the shift rod hole to the top of the metal.
• Shim rings, thrush washers, thrush bearings are important. If you are reusing, inspect them carefully for damage and replace. Shim rings, big deal, I had to see a guy that built lower units who helped measure and was kind enough to let me know I had the right shims.
• Look at you clutch dog carefully. There is a short end and a long end. In my case, the clutch dog tells you which end should be propeller side. Otherwise, short side should be closest to the propeller, long side should be towards the nose of the lower unit casing. Don't assume the one that you are replacing was in correctly.
• Hand test the gears vs using the remote throttle. Unhooked the remote throttle at the engine side and just manual move with you hand the lever. It only has 3 hard positions. If it is straight up, its in neutral, flip it to the left is reverse, flip to the right is forward. In neutral, the propeller shaft should spin freely just like it did before you hooked it up. Wehn you flip to the left or right, it should semi lock (only allow a 1/2 turn and lock) and when you go back to neutral it spins freely again.

If while testing the lower unit off the engine or on, you can not test neutral, forwards and backwards manually - the shift lever did not make it into the shift craddle or it did, and you did not set yourself to neutral if you play around testing. What happen to me, as I was pushing it up the shift rod hole of the casing I would bang it knocking it out of neutral. If this is happening to you or you suspect it - put everything into reverse position, its impossible to move up a gear to do our install.

Once I did all this, I was golden - and a couple dozen other things, I was able to get my hanger queen running cleanly. And as racerone told me, you pay now or you pay later but you have to find the time to do it right. I know I may have to deal with VRO down the road but for now, this is a nice little lake fishing boat.