94 Force Timing Problems

[Millaro]

I can't seem to figure out my timing. I installed a new trigger assembly and stator but I'm not sure if I put the stator in the same exact spot. At WOT with the throttle linkage unhooked, pulled all plugs out, put timing light pickup on #1 wire, with ingnition on, jumped over starter solenoid and reading well over 30 degrees of timing. What am I doing wrong?? Sorry for the first post but I have been on here before and couldn't remember my screen name and password. Please help??

Thank You!

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Can someone PLEASE help with this issue?? Anyone??

Thanks again in advance!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Stator does not control timing; the flywheel center magnet and trigger assembly controls it.

However, before anyone can answer, we need to know the engine size.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

94 Force 120 by Mercury Marine; sorry.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

I still need help please!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Just to be sure, we need to make sure of the type of ignition system you have. Do you have the Thunderbolt system that uses a switch box?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

The arm of the trigger assembly should come out the front of the engine and the timing tower should be attached with two plastic blocks. The screw between the plastic blocks is adjustable and widening the gap increases advance, closing it decreases advance.

Did you install the flywheel with the key in position? It is easy to knock the key out of the crankshaft slot and install the flywheel off position. This will affect timing. You must also torque the nut to 95 foot pounds or the flywheel may break the key when you start the engine.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Yes, it has a Thunderbolt!

Just to be sure, we need to make sure of the type of ignition system you have. Do you have the Thunderbolt system that uses a switch box?

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Yes, this is the case; however, I have to screw all the way shut to get close to 29 to 30 degrees at WOT while cranking. I just found out from Mercury that I am supposed to be using the 817029A4 Trigger Assembly which cross references to a 7029-4. But, I was given a 4029-4....which the OE # is F654029. The serial # on my motor is 0E066545. The Arm on the 7029-4 is longer than the 4029-4. I'm gathering I have the wrong Trigger Assembly.? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Again!

I found the reciept ...we do have the 7029; so now what???

The arm of the trigger assembly should come out the front of the engine and the timing tower should be attached with two plastic blocks. The screw between the plastic blocks is adjustable and widening the gap increases advance, closing it decreases advance.

Did you install the flywheel with the key in position? It is easy to knock the key out of the crankshaft slot and install the flywheel off position. This will affect timing. You must also torque the nut to 95 foot pounds or the flywheel may break the key when you start the engine.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

I see some discrepancies between different WEB sites as to what year uses what trigger assy. What I do see consistently on all the WEB sites is that the 7029-4 trigger has the cylindrical "Bullet" type connectors. The 4029-4 has the "spade lug" connectors. If you have the right type of connectors on the trigger that you just bought, then most likely it's the right one. I would double check the trigger wires to make sure they are connected correctly. The Brown and Violet trigger wires on the wiring harness are sometimes hard to distinguish the color difference due to fading. Double check these two very closely.

Does the motor start and idle OK?

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Here's what I have; please tell me if I'm right........it does idle but the tach says 1200 RPM's; not sure if that's right or not? What should the timing be at idle?? Thanks Again!

I see some discrepancies between different WEB sites as to what year uses what trigger assy. What I do see consistently on all the WEB sites is that the 7029-4 trigger has the cylindrical "Bullet" type connectors. The 4029-4 has the "spade lug" connectors. If you have the right type of connectors on the trigger that you just bought, then most likely it's the right one. I would double check the trigger wires to make sure they are connected correctly. The Brown and Violet trigger wires on the wiring harness are sometimes hard to distinguish the color difference due to fading. Double check these two very closely.

Does the motor start and idle OK?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Timing at idle should be close to 0? TDC. Maybe 2 to 5 degrees advance. I would take Frank's advice and check to see if the Flywheel is on correctly. You can check without having to take the flywheel off. Take #1 spark plug out so you can see the top of the piston. Turn the motor over by hand until you see #1 piston reach top dead center, closest position to the head itself. Look at the timing marks on the flywheel. The white mark on the tab on the block should be pointing to the 0? mark on the flywheel. If not, the flywheel has shifted. Either the flywheel key has been sheared off, or it has slipped out of place when you installed the flywheel allowing the flywheel shift. You'll have to remove the flywheel, locate the flywheel key (it's probably stuck to one of the magnets on the flywheel if it got pushed out of place when installing) and re-install correctly.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Done, it's correct. What should the timing be at WOT cranking?? Mercury says 32; do you agree??

Timing at idle should be close to 0? TDC. Maybe 2 to 5 degrees advance. I would take Frank's advice and check to see if the Flywheel is on correctly. You can check without having to take the flywheel off. Take #1 spark plug out so you can see the top of the piston. Turn the motor over by hand until you see #1 piston reach top dead center, closest position to the head itself. Look at the timing marks on the flywheel. The white mark on the tab on the block should be pointing to the 0? mark on the flywheel. If not, the flywheel has shifted. Either the flywheel key has been sheared off, or it has slipped out of place when you installed the flywheel allowing the flywheel shift. You'll have to remove the flywheel, locate the flywheel key (it's probably stuck to one of the magnets on the flywheel if it got pushed out of place when installing) and re-install correctly.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Here's some pics I took with the Piston on top dead center and on 0 ..on the Flywheel.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

What should the timing be at WOT cranking??? Please let me know... It does have a Switch Box.

thank you again!!!!!!!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

On the Thunder Bolt ignition system, it should be set to 32? BTDC using the static (cranking w/starter, WOT throttle) method. This gives you 30? advance when the engine is actually running at WOT. Having said that, I've seen many motors set to 28? advance with the engine actually running with engine WOT. This is done as a precaution with today's gasoline to prevent detonation and burning a piston. Your flywheel appears to be installed correctly. I think the problem is your replacement trigger assy. Do you still have the original trigger?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Well, looking at the photos, is should not make a difference but perhaps it does: You have the plastic links reversed. the screw and nut and plastic block assembly is supposed to go on the trigger arm. The plain block is supposed to attach to the timing tower. That is why the manual says to stop the engine to adjust timing. AND, I believe the plastic block should be flipped 180 degrees so it is under the timing tower. This gives less throw as the tower advances. So before you take the whole link off, try just flipping the block that is now on the tower. See if that doesn't reduce the amount of advance at WOT. See: A photo is worth a thousand words.

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

The block was on the tower like you are saying, but I couldn't get 28 degrees at cranking WOT so I flipped it around. Now my understanding is that its supposed to be 32 at WOT cranking. Do I need to keep the jam nut in front or behind the block? Also, at 28 degree cranking it wanted to kick back after trying to crank. Here is a pic of the ignition I have:

 

[Millaro]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

I really appreciate the help you guys are giving me. I'm getting frustrated.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 94 Force Timing Problems

Yeah I think we've all been there before. I have a 1995 120HP motor that I'm working on right now that runs fine, and an older 1988 125HP motor. On both motors, the trigger linkage is hooked up exactly the same as your pictures. There are 3 things involved in triggering the spark. The magnet around the center crankshaft hole in the flywheel, not to be confused with the six magnets around the inside edge of the flywheel, the trigger assy itself, and the switchbox. The signal from the trigger assy is fed into the switchbox which fires the coils. The problem has to be with one of those 3 components. I would be tempted to put the original trigger assy. back on if you have it (after confirming it is good by measuring the 4 trigger coils with an OHM meter).