'94 Rude doesn't like to start

jrg5377

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I have a 1994 Evenrude 200 (60 deg. Loop charged). Bought it used and have always had a hard time starting in the water (but fine on a hose). At first I would get it to the water and flood out the engine. I adjusted the timing and air/fuel mixture (1.5 turns from fully closed) and ran a can of OMC’s engine tune through it. This solved the problem once. Second and subsequent trips to the water would leave me unable to start easily. Usually after 20 minutes and a number of ether shots I could get it running.<br /><br />After initial startup, It has always run great. I read a similar post from history where an incorrect flywheel was installed (for a large looper on a small looper). Not sure exactly what the difference is between loopers. Could this be a problem for me? How do I determine the looper size of my engine and flywheel?<br /><br />Any other ideas?<br /><br />Thanks in advance.
 
D

DJ

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

FishinJim,<br /><br />First off, ether is extremely bad for two stroke engines.<br /><br />Second, you should turn the key to on (not start) and push it in for an eight count. Then crank the engine without the key pushed in. Your engine doesn't have a choke and that procedure lets the primer do its job.
 

Reel Appeal

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Jim,<br /> Being a used motor,I would highly recommend a compression check on that motor.What you are describing may be from very low compression.Are you using the prime button when attempting to start? :confused: Also,pull a plug and do a spark check(with help),should be blue spark.
 

clanton

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Your engine should be 90 degree looper. The 60 degree engine only went to 175 HP. I would do what the other posters said, compression first.
 

jrg5377

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Compression is good and consistent among cylinders and I get a good spark at each plug. Also, I use the prime / choke (believe it works properly as I can see it spray when I expose the carbs). Can someone explain what “loop charged” means? Any other ideas?
 

Capt Ken

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

You probably have a problem with cranking speed. Those engines with the gear reduction starter just barely spin the engine fast enough for the stator to produce enough juice to fire off the coils. If the cranking speed drops, then the engines become hard to start if not run in awhile. Be sure the batteries are hot and all connections are clean. But what you describe is a common ailment with these engines.
 

Walker

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

I had the exact same problem with my 94 120. My problem was the primer wasn't working right and also what I believe to be a design fault. If you look at the fuel lines I believe you will see that the line from fuel pump to primer is very short and therefore holds a very small amount of fuel. When you hit the choke before you crank te motor you empty that small line and your choke can do no more until that line fills up again. Try choking the engine while you crank. Don'y hold the choke in. Push in then let go for a couple of seconds and push in again.
 

jrg5377

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Capt Ken.<br /><br />Thanks for the advise - I have a few additional questions. I can start right up on a hose, is slow starting speed still something to consider? Also, other than having a good battery and connections is there any solution to the slow starting speed problem? Currently I am using a Perko switch for my starting battery - could I be loosing current at the switch, increasing the juice problem?
 

jim dozier

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Since you asked, loopers refers to "loop-charging". Some model 2-strokes (mostly older ones) are crossflow induction with intake ports on the opposite side of the cylinder from the exhaust ports. A deflector is built into the piston top to direct intake charge up into the cylinder and away from the exhaust ports (only partly successfully). Loop charged 2 stroke engines have their intake ports on the sides (approximately 90 degrees to the exhaust port for most) and induce a swirling "loop" in the intake charge into the cylinder that more successfully (relative to crossflow deflected) scavenges the exhaust and retains more of the intake thus the term "loop-charged". This also avoids the piston deflector and makes for a better combustion chamber design and allows for a little more creativity in intake port timing and design. Alas, a lot o gas still goes out the window and this is why gas mileage is usually less than 4-strokes.
 

granpafish

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Jim, Don't want to sound discouraging but as already kind of noted Evinrude in that time frame was on their last legs and not doing a very good job of turning out a reliable motor. I owned a 93 50 hp and had nothing but problems. (got mine new) They are now apparently doing well under Bombardier and that's good but it doesn't help you. Just making sure that you are aware of their problems at that time in case you reach a point where you need to make a decision on upgrading. Here's hoping that you can get the problem straightened out and no more show up. Tight lines. Granpa
 

Dhadley

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Have you tried Djohns19 suggestion? I bet it will work. <br />1 - Pump the bulb to create line pressure.<br />2 - Turn the key to the "on" position, do not engage the starter.<br />3 - Push the key in for an 8 count to prime the engine.<br />4 - Turn the key to the start position (engage the starter).<br /><br />It should start almost instantly. <br /><br />Good luck!
 

Walker

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

With all due respect I don't think the primer works that way. It consists of a cylinder and a piston that is actuated by an electro-magnet that drives the piston up into the cylinder. That forces the gas out of the cylinder into the intake. Its a very small amount of gas and only takes a second or two. You have to release the choke switch to allow the piston to return and the cylinder to refill and then hit the switch again before it will send any more gas to the intake. On my particular motor the cylinder will not refill unless the fuel pump is pulsing (motor cranking).<br />Try pulling the primer hose off the intake and watch it while you hit the choke switch.
 

Captn Dave

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

I have a 1989 225 Johnson. A couple of years ago I went through a preiod with hard starting. I had gas and also spark. I rebuilt the carbs and did everything imaginable within my capability. I finally had to take it to a dealer. They found a bad timer base and also a bad power pack. They said the timer base most likely caused the power pack to fail.
 

clanton

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

The primer solenoid is only a switch that opens a valve for fuel flow, the pressure comes from the fuel pump, or the primer bulb. The basic spark test should be done with sparkplugs installed, spark should junp 7/16 gap at cranking rpms. If you search this engine, you should fine a list as long as my arm to check.
 

Walker

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

I could be wrong. Won't be the first time.<br />Read my first post in this topic. I thought my primer was bad but I also took off the VRO fuel pump and replaced it with a old model fuel pump and my starting problem went away. Maybe my fuel pump wasn't creating enough pressure at cranking speed.
 

jrg5377

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

All, Thanks for the ideas. I don't think I have a fuel problem as I see a strong stream when working the throttle (not to mention I can flood the plugs). I have tried every combination I can think of as far as choking during starting (before cranking, during, etc...). <br /><br />At this point I have to believe an electrical problem - will check into the timer base / power pack as well as cranking speed.<br /><br />I still don't understand why I can start on a hose fine but not in the water - would the electical system have to be stronger to overcome the backpressure of the H2O?
 

Dhadley

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Working the throttle will not prime the motor. The carbs do not have an accelerator pump. The primer injects fuel behind the carbs. The only way to see it is pull the airbox cover off and hold the butterflys open and activate the primer.<br /><br />What spark plugs are you using?
 

clanton

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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

The engine starts on the hose because of less engine back pressure, and engine may spin a little faster. Did someone have the flywheel off?
 

Sand Bass

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Jul 17, 2002
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Re: '94 Rude doesn't like to start

Fishinjim, I have a 1994 Evinrude 225. I think it is pretty much the same motor you have. My motor starts great! When motor is cold (first start-up) I push in on the key and start cranking motor while still holding key in. Soon as the engine fires I let off the key (dis-engage primer). If engine starts to slow and sputter I will bump the primer again and it will keep the engine running (might have to bump primer a couple times if engine tries to die). After motor is warm I never have to use primer again. That is how I do it and it works well...even if motor has not been run for months.
 
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