Alpha 1 run without lube

[ajochum]

I own a 1982 Donzi 2+3 18' with a Chevy 350. It has an original 423 hours on it.
I stored it for the Winter in a "questionable situation" which I would rather not go into here. I drove the boat about 2 hours so far this year and happened to check the Alpha 1 on my boat lift and found the top relief screw loose. That made me nervous, so I bought new Mercruser gear lube and went to pump in the new lube when I noticed in horror that the lower screw was missing. I had been driving with absolutely no lube for about two hours off and on.
I put in the quart and a quarter or so, a new screw and drove it a short distance to check it out and all seems well.
Could I be lucky on this? Is there an easy check to see if any damage was done?
I have no leaking, it seems quiet, and the temperature of the engine is running right.
I am considering running it another couple of hours and then replacing the lube once more to check for moisture. I was then considering opening it up at the end of the season to check bearings, etc.
Ideas welcomed!
Thanks!!!!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Could I be lucky on this?

Ayuh,... The odds are 'bout a Bazillion to one against ya...

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Wellllllll.....ya' don't really know how long the lower screw has been MIA.
If it were me, and before panic time, I'd remove the top cap and inspect the right angle gears for wear/heat damage as they are the furthest from the lube supply. Barring any apparent damage, I, as you have done, would replenish the lube and go for a short run, drain the lubricant and inspect for metal filings and/or water emulsion.
This might just be the kuckiest day of your life!!!

 

[ajochum]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Wellllllll.....ya' don't really know how long the lower screw has been MIA.
If it were me, and before panic time, I'd remove the top cap and inspect the right angle gears for wear/heat damage as they are the furthest from the lube supply. Barring any apparent damage, I, as you have done, would replenish the lube and go for a short run, drain the lubricant and inspect for metal filings and/or water emulsion.
This might just be the kuckiest day of your life!!!

That's one thing I was thinking of doing as it's pretty easy to get at and should tell a good story. I've never removed it - if I open it up, I'm assuming there's a gasket - think I will be able to use the old one?

 

[fuzzybob]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

ajochum, welcome to iboats. No, buy a new gasket they're cheap. Good luck!

 

[joncrisler]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

My opinion is that there is no way that drive would last 10 minutes under load without lube, possibly far less. A more likely explaination would be that somebody removed the bottom and top screws since the last time it was in the water. Perhaps somebody tried to sabotage it ? A buddy of mine only filled his OMC (or Volvo, not sure it was 10 years ago) half-way- this drive has 3 oil plugs- you fill to the middle plug, close that up then fill to the top plug. He got 1/4 of a mile at no-wake speed before his upper gearset was destroyed.

Fill it up with the cheapest lube you can find, and run it on muffs for a while. Then drain that and examine it (save it in a clear soda bottle or something) - let it sit for a day and check it for water- it might take a while for the water to seperate out. If there was no water in it, that tends to lend credibility that it was never in the water without lube, and it was drained on land.

That said, I hope you dont follow up with a post about "good thing I used SlickSnot 51 in the drive- that must have protected it" and then try to sell us on it

(thats the skeptic in me )

 

[ajochum]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

My opinion is that there is no way that drive would last 10 minutes under load without lube, possibly far less. A more likely explaination would be that somebody removed the bottom and top screws since the last time it was in the water. Perhaps somebody tried to sabotage it ? A buddy of mine only filled his OMC (or Volvo, not sure it was 10 years ago) half-way- this drive has 3 oil plugs- you fill to the middle plug, close that up then fill to the top plug. He got 1/4 of a mile at no-wake speed before his upper gearset was destroyed.

Fill it up with the cheapest lube you can find, and run it on muffs for a while. Then drain that and examine it (save it in a clear soda bottle or something) - let it sit for a day and check it for water- it might take a while for the water to seperate out. If there was no water in it, that tends to lend credibility that it was never in the water without lube, and it was drained on land.

That said, I hope you dont follow up with a post about "good thing I used SlickSnot 51 in the drive- that must have protected it" and then try to sell us on it

(thats the skeptic in me )

One of two things happened I believe: There's animosity where I store my boat between the wife and her ex, and this would be a great opportunity to continue to harass her. The other is by some chance the bottom screw vibrated loose at just the right time. However, I don't see how two screws could vibrate loose at the same time.
Boat has been on a lift in the water for about a month and a half and it is possible that someone could have gone in the water and done this, but I really have no enemies that would do that to me. It is very strange and going to drive me nuts.
I'm going to drive it one more time for about 15 minutes to warm it up and drain and see what it looks like. Will also check the upper by removing the four bolts and see what that looks for. Stay tuned.

By the way, if this does work out, it absolutely must be due to the fact that I used Amway Greas-a-Solve in the unit. If you guys send me your address, I'll get you a free sample (plus $89.95 shipping and handling).

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

That's one thing I was thinking of doing as it's pretty easy to get at and should tell a good story. I've never removed it - if I open it up, I'm assuming there's a gasket - think I will be able to use the old one?

Howdy... The top cap has a big thin o ring under it. I was able to reuse mine Also the the race for the top drive shaft bearing is pressed into the cap. Take out the 4 bolts and work the cap off slowly and keep it nice and straight. I doubt it will lift right off. Mine didn't anyhow. Then if ya go to reinstall the cap, the 4 bolts need to be torqued to 20 ft lbs. Tighten up in a criss cross sequence.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

The top cap has a big thin o ring under it. I was able to reuse mine

while i've reused that o ring too. i find that while reading iboats that that o ring is not a reusable item. it should be replaced if the cap is removed. makes sense really. that o ring is a barrier between water and gear lub. do ya really wanna take a chance... i don't when i think about it.

imho, pressure test after ya break a seal on anything other than a drain or vent screw...

of course that o ring may be the least of your problems... good luck..

 

[45Auto]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

My opinion is that there is no way that drive would last 10 minutes under load without lube, possibly far less.

I bought a boat with twin 260/Alpha 1's 2 years ago. Starboard engine didn't work. It only ran on the port engine, which had a slight vibration and rumble. We took it out every weekend for a couple of months till I got a trailer big enough to haul it out.

When I pulled it out, the port outdrive was missing all it's zincs and was severely corroded. You could almost see the entire lower bearing carrier, all of the aluminum around it was gone. I pulled the drain screw and all it had in it was perfectly clear water, not a trace of oil. You couldn't buy a quart of cleaner water in the store. No wonder it had a slight vibration and rumble, the bearings are probably all square ...

Point of all this is that I personally put FAR more than 10 minutes of run time on that outdrive, with it full of water and pushing a 12,000 pound, 30 foot boat. No telling how long the previous owner had been running it like that. I was surprised at how much abuse it had taken and still worked.

To the original poster, do as others have suggested and take a look at the gears and upper bearing. If they are OK, feed it some High Performance synthetic lube, and change it again after the first time out. Any water left in the drive should be suspended in the lube, and the second lube change should get it out. I wouldn't be surprised if the drive still works fine.

 

[lcmains1]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

I've never removed it - if I open it up, I'm assuming there's a gasket - think I will be able to use the old one?

You possibly smoked your lower unit and need an entire new one and your worried about a $2.00 gasket???
Really?

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Back to the top o ring thing... I took the top cover off just to inspect the upper gears as I had never had the cap off in 20 yrs. I noticed the slightest bit of rust on the top bearing and race. I felt i could finish off the season with bearing/ race. I reused my o ring, because I knew that in a month the boating season would be over and I was gonna have the upper bearing/ race replaced in the off season. And that o-ring would be replaced. The proper way would have been to replace it then. But I didnt have one on hand and my marine supply store isnt that close to my house. You may be able to reuse yours thru you're troubleshooting/ inspection process, but as Ziggy correctly pointed out. It should be replaced if you are going to put it all back together and run it for the duration.

 

[ajochum]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

You possibly smoked your lower unit and need an entire new one and your worried about a $2.00 gasket???
Really?

Please....don't read into things. The point of my question was merely that I am in an isolated area where I'm just not sure if I can find a gasket this weekend.. work on the boat...test it out....etc.

 

[joncrisler]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

One of two things happened I believe: There's animosity where I store my boat between the wife and her ex, and this would be a great opportunity to continue to harass her. The other is by some chance the bottom screw vibrated loose at just the right time. However, I don't see how two screws could vibrate loose at the same time.
Boat has been on a lift in the water for about a month and a half and it is possible that someone could have gone in the water and done this, but I really have no enemies that would do that to me. It is very strange and going to drive me nuts.
I'm going to drive it one more time for about 15 minutes to warm it up and drain and see what it looks like. Will also check the upper by removing the four bolts and see what that looks for. Stay tuned.

By the way, if this does work out, it absolutely must be due to the fact that I used Amway Greas-a-Solve in the unit. If you guys send me your address, I'll get you a free sample (plus $89.95 shipping and handling).

Well, it sounds like you have a possible motive for the drive sabatoge: please let us know how it turns out as this is very interesting. And- please send me 2 of the Greas-a-Solves

Assuming the ex's harraser is named "Bob"- make up a little sign and hang it from the drive- the sign should read "smile for the camera Bob !".

 

[ajochum]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Well, it sounds like you have a possible motive for the drive sabatoge: please let us know how it turns out as this is very interesting. And- please send me 2 of the Greas-a-Solves

Assuming the ex's harraser is named "Bob"- make up a little sign and hang it from the drive- the sign should read "smile for the camera Bob !".

Thanks for the encouragement! I have an "O" ring on its way and will open up when it arrives and replace the lube. Here's hoping! .....

PS - Am sure you guys have a similar setup - this is a Chevy 350/260 on a Donzi and it hauls a@@! There is nothing on earth better than just after sunset when the lake gets totally flat and you can open it up. Best part is my wife loves to go fast as well, which I never in a million years would have imagined.

 

[joncrisler]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

A buddy of mine had a late mode Donzi 16 with a built small block 383 putting out about 400+ hp. Terrible in rough water, but a heck of a ride when it smoothed out.

 

[ajochum]

Re: Alpha 1 run without lube

Well, pulled the four screws off the top of the drive (with the lube still in it) and everything looked just great. The oil was about the same color as when it went in last week - sort of a greenish-brown, with no milkiness to it. The bearing has a bit of play in it, but I suspect that's normal. Gears (from what I can see) look fine - shiny with no rust. Put in a new "O" ring and torqued it down to 20 lbs each.
I drained the lube and it came out clean from top to bottom. As I watched the final drips over about 5 minutes, I noticed thin black lines of fine sludge as it slid along the side of the plastic bucket I drained it into. I'm assuming that's fine as it's just clearing out built up grime.

Anyway, I filled it up (by the way, you can't just pour it in from the top where the gears are exposed like you might think - it hits a vaccuum or something) by removing the bottom screw and pumping it up to the vent screw. Took it out for a ride and everything seems just fine.

I'm not 100% ready to say "whew" yet, but it sure seems like I should have bought a lottery ticket that day.

I've tried to post pictures that I downloaded from my camera to my e-mail, but my computer doesn't want them to show up for some reason. If I figure it out, will post.

I can't thank each of you enough for your help and expertise on this. It was a big help and gave me the confidence needed to do the job.

PS - The whining I heard that led me to look at the rear-end - could it be the gear shift? Is there rotation in it when it is in the forward position at higher speeds?