Alpha splined shifter free position, and lower shift cable travel issue. Easy answer?

[MrSomething]

Alpha 1, 1986, Merc 190
This is somewhat a 2-part question:

The manuals (and threads) are always clear on how to install the lower-unit to upper, and directions for adjusting, rotating of the shifter shaft CW, while holding the prop CCW to keep the shifter in-position; However, my first question is: At which position is the shift shaft supposed to rest at? --my splined shifter shaft naturally wants to rest (when the lower is separated from upper) already maximum CW. When the lower is off, the shifter gently defaults to forward gear. It's not hard to turn the shifter shaft splines by hand CCW to get to neutral or reverse engagement, but if I let go of the splines, it will rotate, spring back CW to engage forward. Is this normal, or is my lower unit begging repair? When rotating the splined shaft, it engages FW and REV fully, equally relative to neutral, which seems good, however, with the unit mounted, my lower cable won't pull out enough to engage reverse completely, though oh-so-close... Reverse almost engages, begins to click..

I want to be sure if it's the lower unit the problem, or if the cable/slide is the culprit.
Is my problem that my lower unit doesn't engage reverse early enough, or that my cable/slider isn't actuating enough?:

The lower shift cable, disconnected from the Commander, will easily push-in to engage forward, out a bit for neutral, and bottoms-out before reverse gear can engage fully.
I've tried tapping on the I/0 upper shift shaft linkage (the one which grabs on to the Bronze intermediary Female splined shaft), along with pulling on the cable, and they both seem very solidly unwilling to budge even a MM or two (which might be enough to engage reverse). The Coupler is not bottomed-out onto the upper external bell housing, so IT could travel further if it was allowed by the shift cable/slider. Looks like, if the Forward position of the coupler is parallel to the boat during mounting of the unit, engaged in forward, the housing would allow the shifter couplings to pivot 45-55 degrees Portwards, however because of the cable/slider(?), it stops at about 35-40D. Just a few degrees more and reverse could engage fully.
I cannot mount the lower unit to upper with the splined shaft mated one notch Starboards, as the splines are so coarse it would need the upper coupler to be rotated further than the cable will go in that direction (Had only Mercury M. used a finer spline, I could just shift it one notch over to compensate).

If I install the lower cable to the shift attachment plate, set it to 6" distance while at forward engagement, then adjust the Commander linkage and connect it, the forward shifting will work fine, back to neutral, and then when attempting reverse, the cut-off switch will activate IMMEDIATELY as the lower cable is already at it's maximum extension, bottomed-out. ---this is why I suspect the cable/slide instead of the lower-unit shifter, but I prefer to be sure before I take off the upper, manufacture tools, order parts etc..


I rarely ask for help (maybe I'm bad at it), usually only forum-post to offer solutions and inventions (I should post some on here now after saving this boat so far from the chop-saw), but this seems like something one of you other gurus should readily be able to offer a solution to.

thanks for your time (props to you if you got this far)!

 

[robfixhondas]

im very interested as to how you resolve this, im having the exact same issue. cut off trips due to the cable being at the end of its travel.

 

[NHGuy]

"and then when attempting reverse, the cut-off switch will activate IMMEDIATELY as the lower cable is already at it's maximum extension, bottomed-out."
Usually when we hear this the shift links between the upper and lower are off by a (very coarse) spline.
To verify, put in forward, bungee the prop CCW to hold forward, remove 6 nuts holding drive to bellhousing. And see if it will slide back. You don't even need to take it completely off at this point. If it fights you re-snug the nuts a bit and then release the bungee, move the shift to neutral then forward. Now if it slides off I am right.
Either way you need to confirm that the shift foot and shoe are parallel and straight ahead in forward.
Also remember to re check the lower cable for very free smooth operation while the drive is off.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Why was the drive separated?

Was it working before it was taken apart?

How old is the lower cable?

Did you check for any crud where the shift cable comes thru the bellhousing (behind the slide) that might keep the shift cable from being pulled further back engaging reverse?

If someone removed the drive in any gear besides Forward, one of the shift shafts may have gotten bent.

 

[achris]

There is no 'detent' position for the shift shaft. If the gear housing (lower) is removed, the dog clutch/shift shaft can float anywhere. If the housing is held horizontal the clutch will stay where you put it. If the housing is tipped forward (like it would be trimmed UP) the clucth will fall towards forward gear and turn the shift shaft CW. Conversely if it's tipped back, the clutch will fall towards reverse.

As for the reverse problem, you need to establish a few things. Firstly, ensure the rubber and stainless steel washers were refitted when the housings were re-assembled. Is there any relative rotational movement between the top of the intermediate shift shaft and the bottom of the upper shift shaft (the 'foot and shoe')? If so, then use a pair of grips to carefully close the bottom of the upper shaft so there's no rotational movement, but there are still 'free' (ie, not bound)....Once that's correct, then move to the next part up, the lever on the top of the upper shaft. Is the screw tight? Then to the slider. How much float is there on the cable. The slide need to be free to rotate, but it shouldn't be too loose on the cable. You should be able to JUST feel the slide moving... Does the slide run all the way in and out, without hindrance? Once you have all these things sorted out and there is as little 'slop' in the system as possible, then move up to the shift plate and proceed with the adjustment....

Chris.....

 

[Bt Doctur]

can you shift the drive manually off the boat? Does the slider bottom out in the housing with the cable disconnected?

 

[stonyloam]

Check to make sure that the top of the intermediate shift shaft is not bent (twisted). It could have been bent during outdrive removal sometime in the past. Turn the lower ss all the way CW, trial fit the lower and make sure the top of the ss points exactly straight forward. Then the stuff Chris suggests.

 

[MrSomething]

Thanks for helping

I'm not sure if I had reverse when I got this boat and began working on it. I Had removed the lower half to rebuild the impeller etc, and I believe that it may have had more travel on the cable then still.
It was in extremely poor shape, maintenance-wise, though has very very few hours on it from the looks.

If I wanted to install the lower with the splines off by 1, the shoe/cam would be clearly way off.
I do keep the prop CCW anyway every time, but I really don't have to even hold the prop in CCW during installation, because the shifter rests in forward, and I've checked fifty times that the shifter is completely CW, prop CCW, AND the shoe/cam are both straight forward. IF I try to manually, improvisationally compensate for the problem by installing the lower and rotating a spline over, not straight forward at all, then it's too far CW for the cable/upper shoe to go, because the slide/shoe seem to catch a bit in that direction when pushed that far in/CW (can't pull it back with the cable, instead need to flick the shoe just a bit with a finger to get it to uncatch) --since this is not how it's supposed to be installed, I assume that it's not an indicator of a problem.



@achris: My lower shift shaft always gently springs back to forward by default, at any angle. I don't know if perhaps some of these are different than others? It does not float arbitrarily.
Yes, I have the rubber and stainless washer, and I experimented adding an extra washer just to get that cam up precisely to the top of the cam, while still free. There is barely any play at all rotationally in the cam/shoe, it shows no wear at all.
I have not taken off the upper half yet from the bell to inspect the slider (don't want to get ahead of myself just yet if the lower is the culprit). The screw you're referring to holds the cable end in the slide, or is on the arm? I imagine that if the cable has slipped out of the slide, then the slide would bottom-out prematurely, if this ever happens.
And IS the lever on top of the upper shaft adjustable? I swear that if I could just rotate something in these shafts a couple of MM over, it would work. From blow-ups, it appears the lever is not adjustable to me for the Alpha (though in the Bravo looks like it is easy). So I don't know if the slide is traveling fully. With the cable fully extended, it feels very solidly as if's at the end IE I don't imagine the cable is unravelled inside, fudging it up.
There is no play to speak of between moving the cable by hand and the actuating of the lower shift shafts. I would not say the cable is stuck at all, it moves readily enough with one hand, however there is some friction for sure -not enough friction to itself trigger the cut-out switch when installed on the plate. It only triggers because the cable acts bottomed-out anywhere past neutral.

Here's a question, what is the travel I should expect from the cable itself, at the front end? I just measured mine, with the lower installed, I get exactly 1.75" lock to lock. Like I said, when it is extended to Reverse, it locks very solidly, while pushed in to FW, it feels more springy -I can push in to the point FW engages fully, and then more, and there is resistance and the prop doesn't want to turn reverse/CW either. If I rotate prop CW, it will force the cable back out a bit to a comfortable distance as the ramp gears push it out. This seems proper. If only I had that "extra" travel for reverse, instead of solidly bottoming-out, I'd be all set.

@Doctur: Yes, I can shift the lower half, rotating the splined shaft by hand, both directions and neutral work fine.
With the cable d/c from the shift plate, cable travel is the same. I am doing most of this with the cable off the plate, this isn't anything to do with plate adjustments yet.



@stonyloam: The shafts sure don't look bent (if it is, it must be in the upper). When mounting the lower with the shaft CW, ensuring prop is CCW all of the way, the cam/shoe line up straight forwards. Then after If I pull the cable out, the shoe just won't engage reverse fully by the time the cable/slide FEEL maxed-out solidly.

 

[Bt Doctur]

~~I have not taken off the upper half yet from the bell to inspect the slider (don't want to get ahead of myself just yet if the lower is the culprit).
the cable works the slider that works an arm that moves the shoe connected to the lower splined shaft . All systems must function to shift, not just a lower unit

 

[ktbarrentine]

Thanks for helping


It was in extremely poor shape, maintenance-wise, though has very very few hours on it from the looks.

It is sooooo much easier to do this with the upper half off the boat. Six nuts and its off. 5 minutes and a gasket kit. Then you can mate it together on the bench and troubleshoot better. Sounds like it needs the U-joints and bellows looked at anyways, so you are well ahead and advised to go all the way. Would be a great time to go all out and replace the lower shift cable anyways, based on description overall ("extremely poor shape").

 

[stonyloam]

OK! You said a couple of things that make me believe that the problem is with the shift slide/upper shift shaft connection. See if I can explain: The shift slide is on the end of the cable and slides back and forth. There are two arms on the slide that capture a roller on the upper shift shaft lever. When you shift to F the forward arm pushes the roller back which rotates the ss clockwise. When you shift to R the slide moves forward and the aft arm pushes the roller forward rotating the ss counterclockwise. I believe that the roller is not between the arms but behind the aft arm, so when shifting to F the arm rotates the ss CW but when shifting to R the slide moves forward but the ss does not move because the aft arm is in front of the roller rather than behind. What to do? Pull the upper and look.

 

[achris]

If you haven't removed the drive shaft housing you have no idea what condition the upper shift shaft, lever and roller are in. If the roller on the end of the lever is damaged, this would easily account for the problems you have...

 

[stonyloam]

And when the two dumbest guys on the site agree........:facepalm:

 

[achris]

Who are you calling dumb, dumby?
I'd forgotten about that, thanks for reminding me.... :facepalm:

 

[ktbarrentine]

Who are you calling dumb, dumby?
I'd forgotten about that, thanks for reminding me.... :facepalm:

What/wait! I thought dummy was with two m-s.... Is this a down-under thing?

Signed: Another dummy!:laugh:

 

[MrSomething]

three characters

 

[MrSomething]

So, removed the upper. did find what I expected, pile of moist soot, evidence of water in the upper bellows. Hasn't seemed to have affected the u-joint. However, it was able to collect around the upper steering linkage. All would appear good, and the lever/slider I think still had been traveling the correct maximum travel distance. Yet when I was lubricating the slider and cable, checking for friction, it seemed to max-out at a point, then in a couple of minutes It WOULD retract further by .3" or so. This was caused by corrosion within the aluminium slide, stopping the Nylon end-tube from going in further to the slide. Not sure if it will affect the shifting to Reverse, as I'm near-sure the upper shift lever, in the housing, was what was bottoming-out the entire assembly.

Tomorrow, , while waiting for my Speedi-Sleeves to arrive, I'll probably bench assemble the outdrive, see if shifting works.

Another thing: now lower half's shift shaft is "correctly" resting wherever I leave it, and will rotate fwd/rev if I tilt it. Maybe something freed-up after walking it across the driveway?! I'd last Fall changed the lube, which was clean, then did it again last week, clean again.

ordering bellows (old was not cracked, only middle-aged), bearing etc too of course, while I'm at it.

will return with any updates!

 

[achris]

three characters

What? You mean like Larry, Curly and Joe? :rofl:

 

[stonyloam]

If you are going to do the bellows, might as well do the lower shift cable too.

 

[MrSomething]

So, problem is totally fixed. Was what I suspected earlier -water had gotten into the bellows (Through hull having previously been flooded, looks like just a bit of water passed through the breather hole located around gimbal bearing). Small amount of water worked it's way down to the lowest aftwards point of the upper drive, right to the shift slide. Inner of the aluminium slide was just corroded enough so that the nylon liner of the cable was solidly catching inside the slide.

Took awhile for an update due to waiting for parts, and finding the time..
Replaced lower cable, new bellows, bearing, trim limit etc Along with the speedi-sleeve method of pump "repair".. centred both sleeves under both edges of the seals, rather than just centreing on the main sealing edges. Also scavenged an old Merc alternator from a retired hulk in the harbormaster's backyard, managed to free it up eventually.. made some mounts out of scrap. Lo! it works.

First time I've been willing to push the engine a bit, took it up to 40 with 5 200lb guys. "large" 21' Galaxy with cabin.

Thanks guys!