Angels catcher blew it

[kenimpzoom]

Ya know bad call or not, had the catcher tagged the runner or thrown to first base, he would have been out.<br /><br />I would think that at MLB level, tagging the runner on the 3rd strike would be automatic.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Chief101]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

The first baseman was halfway to the dugout by then. But then, bad calls are part of the game, any game. Golf is a game where your integrity shows, you call your own penalties. In most other sports competitors are trying to not get caught. This partucular incident was just a missed call, the umpire couldn't see that the ball was caught, as showed by the replay. You have to go with the unpire's instint or there wouldn't be a game.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

agreed shortly. It was a bad call, and no catcher would think to tag or throw the ball to first when he knew that he had caught the ball. To him it was just like any other strike out. It's understandable to me what the catcher did. The funny thing is that the batter was a catcher too and said after the game that the exact same thing happened to him earlier in the season. He said he caught a very low third strike, ran out to the mound to chat with the pitcher, and never noticed the guy running to first until he was at the mound, when it was too late. The replay showed that the ball did actually bounce. Oh well, it must be that Chicago luck swinging back after what it did to the Cubs.<br /><br />Go SOX!

 

[jtexas]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

<br /><br />I don't agree, mrbscott, a catcher should know, 3rd strike in the dirt, tag the batter. That's why Pierzynski ran.<br /><br />On a dropped third strike they call the strike but don't call 'em out. The umpire didn't call him out. Even a third-string catcher should know that means the batter is now a runner and has to be put out. The rest of the team should know it too. Erstad should have been calling for the ball.

 

[QC]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

I kinda agree on the catcher issues. He even said in the paper that he accepts no blame, which is crap. I do think that this particular umpire's gestures are confusing. He made a very clear out sign with his fist just as Paul is tossing the ball to the mound, and it followed his right handed strike call. Also, it has been noted by many that it is traditional for the umpire to yell "no-catch, no-catch" just as it is traditional for them to yell "out" when the out is recorded. Seems like a lot of little blames to go around, but ultimately the catcher could have put it in his control.<br /><br />In fareness to the catcher that was a huge strikeout and he may have been caught up in the moment. I also think the umpires are being a little less than honest to say that the replay is inconclusive. There is absolutely NO dirt moving in the replays. The redirection of the ball comes frome the webbing . . . Clean catch.<br /><br />Doesn't matter now. Don't you LOVE baseball? What a beautiful, crazy, silly, cerebral, perfect game.

 

[QC]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> I don't agree, mrbscott, a catcher should know, 3rd strike in the dirt, tag the batter.

Of course he "knows" that . . . , but the pitch was NOT "in the dirt". That is the whole issue. As MrB posted, the Catcher knows that he caught it, but he needs to be sure the umpire knows too . . .

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

actually, the umpire DID call him out. If you watch, he gives the signal, and according to the catcher, said "You're out!". Even the batter didn't know what to do right away. He doesn't start running to first until the Angels are starting to march off the field. The ump went back on his call, all because the batter ran.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

If I was the coach, I would have the catcher throw to first on every strikeout even if the strike is clearly caught chest level.<br /><br />Only takes a second and umps do make mistakes.<br /><br />Ken

 

[QC]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

KIZ,<br /><br />The problem with that is if there is anybody else on base. You don't want throws leaving the plate with a guy at third for example . . . I think if there is any doubt they should jump up and tag them, which in fact you see quite often.<br /><br />MrB,<br /><br />I never heard that the ump said "your out". If that's the case, then the only issue is with the ump.

 

[Chief101]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

You can't do that on a game winning pitch, nobody is on base to catch the ball, the game is over. Qc, the issue is with the ump, but more than half of the calls made are made by the sound. The sound made by the ball bouncing off the webbing into the glove is the same as the souond of ball bouncing off the ground. In this case the dirt didn't fly but the ump didn't see that side.

 

[PW2]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

The Angels just got caught up with the infamous three out rally. It'll get you every time if you are not careful.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

The manager for the Angels said the ump said "you're out" in an article on ESPN.<br /><br />"It was a swing, our catcher caught it, Doug Eddings called him out, and somewhere along the line because the guy ran to first base, he altered the call. He called him out, and that's what's disappointing. When an umpire calls a guy out and you're the catcher -- and I've caught my share of them -- he's out. He didn't call 'swing,' he rang him up with his fist and said, 'You're out.'"<br /><br />Sorry, I needed to read the rest of the article. <br /><br />Actually in the article though it says that the ump did NOT say "you're out". And the ump says that the fist was for a third strike, not you're out. He also said that he was staring at the catcher when he turned to go to the dugout like the he had to tag the batter. And that is why the batter didn't take off right away. He took off when he saw the umpire staring at the catcher while thinking "do something". It kinda makes sense that way, but I'm not convinced. But anyway, Go SOX!

 

[wildbill59]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

Do they drug test the umps? Maybe he got into Rameriez's stash.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Angels catcher blew it

Anyone notice what the home plate umps normal signal was for a strike that game? On that play, he gave a finger signal with his right hand, then a fist signal with his right hand. The fist signal or the finger signal can both be used for calling a strike (both using the right hand), but the out signal is only made with the fist. <br /><br />If the ump used a finger signal the rest of the game for a strike, he screwed up on the play in question with his signals in addition to missing the call. By giving a finger signal for third strike first, THEN giving a fist signal, it would seem clear that he was calling the strike and THEN the out. If he was using a fist signal for strikes the whole game, his finger signal first & then fist signal after was at best misleading.<br /><br />I can't blame the catcher. Not only did he know he caught the ball cleanly, the infielders who had a clear view of the play (as well as the pitcher) started trotting off the field immediately. Had there been any doubt, that wouldn't have happened. Also gotta wonder why the third base ump didn't help with play. He had a better angle than the home plate ump; maybe he was too far away to clearly see whether the ball hit the dirt or not...<br /><br />Bad call by home plate ump as well as confusing hand signals.<br />VERY smart play by Pierzynski; not only did he run, he headed towards the dugout until the catcher rolled the ball back towards the pitcher and THEN he ran when it was too late for the Angels to do anything.