(Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

[zevi]

Greetings!

I've been reading this forum for quite some time, and I'm getting infected by this get-a-boat bug...

I live in Michigan, and I am looking for a fun boat to take the kids and/or friends on it, pull skies/tubes. What I'm converging on is something like the bowrider Four Winns 190/200 or similar.

So here's a couple of quick questions for which I hope to get a good advice from the knowledgeable people here:

1. Boat pricing: what's a good guideline? Is NADA off the ball with their pricing?

A couple of examples that confuse me: when I plug the details of this boat into NADA (here) I get about $12,000-$13,500 which is much less than the $19,500 they ask for. Another one is this boat, for which they ask $18,900. NADA says it's worth about $14,500-$16,500 (here).
What I missing? I know it's summer, but how can I evaluate what's a boat's fair value?

2. Buyer beware and due diligence: how to properly check what I'm buying?

I'm quite mechanically inclined, understand engines, and capable of following checklists. Where can I find such lists? What are the sensitive, damage-prone areas that are typically hidden on a boat? How to reach/check them? I understand rotting wood - but are there really soft spots on fiberglass? I'm sure that somewhere on iBoats there's some sticky thread or a "resource library" -- can you please point me there?

Many, many thanks in advance!
Zevi

 

[tpenfield]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

When you go to a car dealer and look at the sticker prices . . . Then you offer about 20% less than the sticker . . . That's what is going on with boat asking prices. Everybody asks more than they are going to get. Usually you will see one or two folks way below the rest . . . Those are the folks who really want to sell their boats.

NADA tends to be low on some boats because nada is more of a depreciation schedule than it is a historical reference. You can use BUCvalue as another reference, which has got some better info as input to the fair market pricing

As far as evaluating the boat, if you do not know what you are looking at, hire a marine surveyor and boat mechanic to do the detailed assessment of the boat's condition. My advice is to learn what to look for so that you bid on something that is reasonably good. Then the pro's can point out anything that they find, etc. lots of reference info here and on the web in general.

 

[BonairII]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

NADA is useless for boats.

Best bet is to compare prices on similar boats in your area.

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

So here's a couple of quick questions for which I hope to get a good advice from the knowledgeable people here:

1. Boat pricing: what's a good guideline? Is NADA off the ball with their pricing?

What I missing? I know it's summer, but how can I evaluate what's a boat's fair value?

2. Buyer beware and due diligence: how to properly check what I'm buying?

I'm quite mechanically inclined, understand engines, and capable of following checklists. Where can I find such lists? What are the sensitive, damage-prone areas that are typically hidden on a boat? How to reach/check them? I understand rotting wood - but are there really soft spots on fiberglass? I'm sure that somewhere on iBoats there's some sticky thread or a "resource library" -- can you please point me there?

Many, many thanks in advance!
Zevi

Here are a few thoughts that I hope help you out.

There is no good guideline to boat pricing. There are three key factors in play that make this impossible. The factors are:

- Local demand for a given boat. In Florida a 25+ foot center console in good condition is always in hot demand. In Minnesota, you can't give them away. Different local areas favor different boats, so supply is tighter and prices are higher.

- Condition & Maintainance - Condition and maintainance are EVERYTHING. Unlike cars, which will be in roughly similar condition for a given mileage figure, boats can be in wildly differing conditions. A 2007 Brand X Runabout could be worth $15,000 and another one of the could be worth $0.

- Season - in the northern tier, we have the silly season from April to July 4. This is when amatures and boat-crazed newbies all get boat fever and hit Craigslist trying to score a hot bargain so they can hit the lake with their buddies that weekend. It is completely commonplace for boats to sell for a 30% preimum in May over what they would bring in July or August.

The vast majority of amature sellers overestimate what their boat is worth in the local market for the very reason you've found: They check NADA and assume that's what the boat is "worth". Then they put out the ad and they spend several weeks getting increasingly frustrated by no calls or getting only "lowball" offers. Eventually most of them wise up, but it can take a long time.

The key is to watch Craigslist and pay attention to what SELLS. IE, print out ads from certain boats that you are interested in and watch them the online ads disappear. If you see a boat go up on Monday for $10,000 and it's gone on Tuesday, there's a good chance the seller got his price.

I would not rule out using a broker. Brokers have saved me a ton of hassle and the better ones save time by telling sellers to get real on price right out of the gate or they won't even take the boat on brokerage. The advantage to buyers is that they don't have to deal with unrealistic sellers who believe an 8 year old boat should be worth 90% of what they paid for it new.

Finally, while it seems simple to have a "things to check" buyers checklist, it's a lot more complicated. There are so many variables that it's almost impossible, in fact.

Grouse

 

[Downforce6]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

Newbie here also who just went thru the process of buying his first Bowrider.

Basically was already said but I'll give it a +1.

The thing with NADA, in my opinion is not they they are that far off, but they do not account for location or condition of the boat like a resource like KBB does. So the same boat, in the same condition, is going to be one price here in MO, another in NY city. I think NADA list more of a across the board, average price.

and like already said, a guy who wants 15K for his boat is going to list it for 17K.

I agree with the notion, check local listings and compare whats out there. Then check NADA and maybe listings out of your area to get some idea of what "your type of boat" is going for and use all these resources together. the condition really is everything, I'd rather overpay for a boat in great condition than find a "steal" and then find out it needs thousands more in work or just isnt even worth it's weight in dirt.

As far as buyer beware, the more experienced boaters on this forum turned out to be my best resource. I also called the local water patrol to find out what I needed to safely boat the waters in my area. (as far as size and power).

 

[zevi]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

Here are a few thoughts that I hope help you out....

- Season - in the northern tier, we have the silly season from April to July 4. This is when amatures and boat-crazed newbies all get boat fever and hit Craigslist trying to score a hot bargain so they can hit the lake with their buddies that weekend. It is completely commonplace for boats to sell for a 30% preimum in May over what they would bring in July or August.

The vast majority of amature sellers overestimate what their boat is worth in the local market for the very reason you've found: They check NADA and assume that's what the boat is "worth". Then they put out the ad and they spend several weeks getting increasingly frustrated by no calls or getting only "lowball" offers. Eventually most of them wise up, but it can take a long time.

The thing with NADA, in my opinion is not they they are that far off, but they do not account for location or condition of the boat like a resource like KBB does. So the same boat, in the same condition, is going to be one price here in MO, another in NY city. I think NADA list more of a across the board, average price.

and like already said, a guy who wants 15K for his boat is going to list it for 17K.

... I'd rather overpay for a boat in great condition than find a "steal" and then find out it needs thousands more in work or just isnt even worth it's weight in dirt.

Thank you for the very helpful input. I can definitely see the "silly season" effect here. And I also would rather pay an extra amount today that will save me from triple that cost in the long run with a "steal." NADA does ask for your zip, so I was thinking they do account for regional pricing.

In any case, I will have to watch the ads for asking price and make a best guess as to what they were sold for. Like anything else - the right price is always a matter of what people are willing to pay. It doesn't matter what the NADA/KBB/ or any blue book say - if that's what an item was sold for - that's what it's worth. I was hoping, however, to find some shortcut to understanding the market, so I can get boat sooner.

Thanks again, and I hope to post here soon that I bought something!

Zevi

 

[KFS]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

Great advice here (and thanks for asking Zevi!)

I'm definitely seeing the Silly Season at work here too. I've haunted CL and BoatTrader for Ohio, PA, and parts of Mich and WVa with no luck.

I'm leaning toward an older Four Winns Horizon 190 - or something of that size and quality.

I just have to believe that the longer it takes to find it, the more we will learn along the way and the better our final choice will be. We are big believers in "If it's meant to be, it will."

That and if you are in NE Ohio I will wrestle you for any good Four Winns deals. I swear

 

[Silvertip]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

Forget Kelly, NADA and any other "guide book". Nearly every boat dealer in every state in the union has a "New" and "Used" boat section on their web site. so you don't know the names of the dealers in Michigan (or any other state????). Gee - Google and Yahoo will list them for you if you use the words "Boat Dealers in XXXXXXXXXXXX" where xxxxx is the state or city of your choosing. Once you have this list, look at their web site (which also has a SEARCH box) and key in the boat you are interested in or just browse the entire inventory noting the price, options, engine, with/without trailer, etc. You throw out the high and low prices and those in the middle represent the "average" for boats in your area. Don't ignore the high and low prices since there may be a reason they are high or low. Either boat can still be what you want. Lastly, don't buy anything unless you get an on water test and if something doesn't work, ask why.

 

[zevi]

Re: (Another) newbie into boating... what's the story with pricing, and also...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOT ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am now officially a BOAT OWNER!

It's a Four Winns 190, and I will post picture and the purchasing story (if you care to read...) on a different thread (doesn't belong tho this title).

The help & guidance I got here was definitely instrumental!

Zevi