Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Homerr · Dec 31, 2003

Ok..I got caught.. BAD HOMER BAD! I put up a carport in the back of my house and got caught without getting a permit. No biggie... I did what they said, fill out all the BS plans and what-not. I had to call the Fire Department for an inspection (which I did). Well here it is a year later, and I get a notice a while back that I may be fined for not 'completing' the permit. Funny thing is, one of the reasons they say I didn't complete it was because they didn't get a plot/plan of the carport? Excuse me? I have the plans right here in front of me with THEIR signature of approval! The planning commission is saying it's not their problem that the Fire department dropped the ball, and it's my problem to follow up. Couldn't they have sent a letter or something explaining this? Their answer: hire a contractor. 1. If I could afford a contractor, I might hire one. 2. If I am willing and able, I'll do the work myself thanks. Why spend a ton of money on a contractor if I can do the work myself? It almost feels like blackmail. I'll tear the carport down before I pay them any fines. My question is: Can a city/country inspector/code officer trespass on your land in the first place? I certainly didn't give them permission to step on my land. I have no trespassing signs everywhere as well as a full fence. This dirt-bag HAD to go through my garage to get to my carport to take pictures. I have been to the planning office time and again this week, and they are always "in the field'... Don't call us we'll call you. Now there is a certified letter 'pickup-notice' in my po box that is from my county. I will not accept the letter. It's probably a fine of some sort. As long as I don't accept it, they can't do nothing. At least as far as I know. I've done all they ask and they still give me a hard time. I'm a simple working stiff trying to make ends meet and they pull this. One more reason to leave Oregon. H.

LubeDude · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Come on now Homerr, you know how bad we need the money and we are going to get it any way we can! Now shudup and pay your fine so the little kids will have a school to go to next year!! What a Crock!!!

bomar76 · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

I have been a BOCCA certified Structural inspector for quite a few years (but never EVER will be employed as one - not enough $$$ on earth for that job - I am a commercial contractor) and while regulations vary wildly between jurisdictions, I can answer some of your points generally:

Can a city/country inspector/code officer trespass on your land in the first place?

He has every right to. The inspectors are there to enforce legally enacted building codes and as such, was most likely well within his duties.

I have been to the planning office time and again this week, and they are always "in the field'... Don't call us we'll call you.

Every jurisdiction I have worked within (all over the USA) mantains office call hours for the inspectors (normally 8-9 AM and some sort of afternoon hours) where they are available for calls to answer questions and such.

Now there is a certified letter 'pickup-notice' in my po box that is from my county. I will not accept the letter. It's probably a fine of some sort. As long as I don't accept it, they can't do nothing. At least as far as I know.

Not picking up the cerififed letter sent you in a legal matter such as this is no way out. Forget that idea. You will lose by default. Period. As for this statement:

One more reason to leave Oregon.

Any jurisdiction that has adopted the model codes or some semblance of will have similar laws. It ain't just Oregon.... and those codes are there for a reason....the safety of the public. They also help elevate property values and lower insurance premiums. I have had projects in many areas without any building code enforcement and they are ALWAYS areas with the most slipshod and unsafe building practices and the lower property values.

rolmops · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

hello Homer. If the dirtbag had to go through your garage to take his pictures then the pictures are worthless.Go to your local police station and file a complaint for breaking and entering a private residence without a search warrant and file it against the person who actually did it and the town.Claim damages,while at the same time let it shimmer through that you may want to settle for a few thousand.Now the town has a problem.There may be a lawyer around your place who has political aspirations,this would be your opportunity to take advantage of that. good luck.

ebbtide176 · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

i wonder why rolmops claims to like plywoody...hmmm take it e.z. just a poke atcha you got a good reply 1st try it seems. i was thinking that - yes, remember, we do NOT own the land even though you might think you do. evidence is when the lawmen knock down your door while looking for whatever they may be doing at the time. take no offense officers, i do believe in this rule. but homer, as the old saying goes, you are but a caretaker really. now, as far as codes go, i think you gotta always follow local, state, fed, almighty GOD codes, no matter your particular place in life (politicians excluded) if that doesn't help, then i'm sorry for interrupting

as for my work in my basement, its nice, because here we don't need most inspections for a DIY fixerupper

snapperbait · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Homerr, looks like yer skeee-rew'd any way you turn... Do what they ask.. Get names of everyone you speak with.. dates which you skoke to whomever, and their position too.. By all means, do not tear the carport down! You'd probably need a permit to do that as well...

ebbtide176 · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

i hope you can call the county clerk, and they can give you the info on your rights. i would study this predicament as if it were a boat dealer trying to handle your latest lemon-boat. that's not meant to mean all boats of course.

good luck, learn lots, become one with the local jurisdiction! lol

Homerr · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

I have every intention of getting the permit and what-not. That's not a big deal. It just seems they don't make it easy for the DIY'er. For them trying to (basically) force me to get a contractor is what my main gripe is. I will NOT get a contractor or pay their fines because their Fire Department has fallen down on their job. I realize I'll never 'own' my land. That's a no-brainer. That still gives them no right to come into my home. As far as the certified letter... if they do not have my signature accepting the letter, then I don't see how they can do anything, short of presenting it to me in court. That's like trying to take you to court without a subpoena. Been there done that before and won. They said they served me and they didn't. They never could find proof of delivery (cause they didn't serve me like the liars said) I'm just about at a point to either let the bank have it back or burn it down. There are some times I just don't care anymore. I hate this state and don't give one rip about their money problems. If the state learned how to live on a budget like the rest of us and not spend like a drunken sailor, then there wouldn't be money issues. I'm glad there are money problems here. It is now forcing them to find out where the spending is. I voted down the latest tax hike, and will continue as long as I'm a prisoner of this state. On one hand, I hope the state goes completely bust. Maybe then they will realize the people aren't going to take it anymore. WHEW! I feel better now... Happy New Year! Thanks guys for your help. H.

11 footer · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Wow, I didn't know that people actually got caught doing that stuff. We have had prolbems with the Town of Somervill, they wanted to buy a building from us a few years ago, and my dad backed at the last moment, that messed up there plans form some city park they wanted to make or some crap. The city went rid chit and sent a letter that went on forever with tons of volations on the building everything from poor lighting to lead paint where kids where liveing. It was insane for a while, all we could do was follow the rules for a while and make them happy. That was a few years ago, since then we complettly renavated a unit and didn't get one single permit, and didn't get caught

Not picking up the letter won't make a difference, my dad ryed that when he was getting sued, it buys some time, but you still have to face the music

FLATHEAD · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Hey Homerr, If I was you I would take a good look at my neighbors. It sounds to me that one of them might have turned you in. The township has you by the short hairs now, you might as well try to comply the best you can.

ebbtide176 · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

it seems you're thinking the right way, to me. it just sux when you're caught up in local politics without being invited, don't it?

i guess i'd feel the same way. now, put all that aside and every spare moment you have, call up some local ads for 'handyman' and find one who can give you the lowdown on how to handle the locals... that's the best i can offer

Homerr · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

I know what I need to do... AGAIN. The Fire Department dropped the ball, and the planning commission filed it in the 'circle basket' that's all... I'll start over again. I do know a contractor, but he's been long since out of the trade. Dunno if he can help or not. I had everything already approved, but I guess they enjoy watching people jump through the hoops again. So be it. Either that, or "News-at-11"

!! H.

TPD211 · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Homerr, I'm a detective with my local police department and also do code enforcement for the city. If you got caught for building with no permit, the city/county where you live can also initiate a code board hearing even though you obtain the permit. The certified letter for you is probably the Notice of Violation. They can proceed with a hearing even if you do not take receipt of the letter. They can proceed after a certain amount of time has passed, they post a notice of violation meeting their legal requirements, and they post the property. The best thing to do is jump thru the hoops at this point. The end result of all this is that they eventually put a lein on the property for the code enforcement violation. As for the trespassing, no the code enforcement officer is not supposed to trespass on the property to conduct a investigation. A building inspector is a different story. He can come onto property to inspect. They will probably continue with a code board hearing, fines can be up to 250.00 a day for residential violations. Any appeal process you have after the code board hearing is at the county court level. This stuff varies depending on how the local code board laws are written. Hope this helps, Mike Woods

plywoody · Dec 31, 2003

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Sounds like you are getting some decent advice here. I can certainly understand why inspectors would prefer to deal with contractors than with DIY'er though. DIY'er have a tendency to try to get by with substandard material because it is cheaper, and they tend to like to cut corners. Most times it is cheaper for a reason, and most codes are developed for a reason. In college, I worked for a contractor that rebuilt old homes he purchased, and you could always tell the difference between something built by a professional vs an amateur. When you tried to repair something done by an amateur, most often you would have to completely rip out and start over, as you could not count on anything being done right. I am glad to hear they are enforcing codes, though. If you go to buy a property, it is nice to know it was built to code, rather than built any which way just to get by on the cheap.

SpinnerBait_Nut · Jan 1, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Ahhhhh, Lifes good in the sticks. I build what I want, I tear down what I want, and I blow up what I want.

Ralph 123 · Jan 1, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

H, I have some experience having worked in cinstruction to pay for high school and college and doing my own stuff and for friends and family ever since. A lot of my extended family and friends are also contractors. bomar76 has it 100% correct and...drum roll please... so is PW! (Gawd tat was tough to type! just kidding

) Anyway, here is my advice that I used here when I built my deck and my shed recently: Kiss their butts! That's right, go up to the building department and start kissing their butts especially the person who works the office. Claim ignorance and your willingness to do whatever they ask. Once you get friendly with them all your problems will go away. If you cop an attitude they will force you to rip the whole thing down and even fine you. I shmoozed them and they could not have been any more helpful or responsive. While they were helping me, they were breaking other people's back who wanted to fight with them. Ryan, here in MA they are brutal. I am surprised you don't know that with your dad owning property. They are always looking around and forcing people to rip stuff down. You also get the jealous or POd neighbor who drops a dime on you that you have no permit.

11 footer · Jan 1, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

Ralph, In the town where we live "Burlington" we wound never have a prolbem with that stuff, we had a fairley large shed built with no permit and not no prolbem at our house, but thats just Burlington, my dad has many conections in this town and no one would give us any prolbems. In somervill the building that we did was working inside, we took down all the walls out put new electrical in and put new walls up, not a single prolbem with the town, we never pulled any permet for any of it. We had to have a crain come and lift the sheet rock threw the 3ed floor window and everything, the whole nine yards.

The worst town for that stuff out of where we own properys is Newberryport(sp) they are pretty bad up there. We just got luckey I guess.

ebbtide176 · Jan 1, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

this is just a reply to the negatives. i don't think anyone gave sorry advice. but i don't think DIY's can be cast as less than quality craftsmen. i think most DIY's are talented persons to even take on the task of home repair. in some areas of the country this may be way off, but the years i was in construction, the crew i worked with did many small residential jobs that involved dealing with DIY projects. i don't think its fair to lump DIY's into chop jobs. i didn't experience cheap jobs by them, but yeah, if they didn't have the expertise, then they might finish a job with what a pro would call a 'shortcut'. go for it! work it all out and get the thru the legal parts. it will require the hand's on, and the regulation knowledge.

deofc · Jan 2, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

The "certified" or "registered" letter is just to prove (from their end) that they attempted to notify you at your last known (to them) address, NOT that they actually notified you. Not picking up or signing for the letter doesn't do anything for you. I believe that most cities/towns/counties/whatever require a building permit at a certain $$ amount of repair even if it is DIY.

mellowyellow · Jan 2, 2004

Re: Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

right on ebb! I am a DIY'er and if anything I take more care than any hourly nailbanger sub would ever do. gramps was a mason, plumber and later a GC, so no hatchet jobs here. as to origional question, Ralph hits the nail on the head IMO. catch more fly's with honey... good luck, M.Y.

Anyone familiar with building codes, laws etc...?

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