are we all paying too much in tax

miloman

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talking on another post and got me wondering are we paying too much in tax I think so and the reason simple because our government is so backwards that they dont have a clue what they are really doing
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

M/M, I don't know about Canada, but we do pay to much in the US for sure and all the talking about tax cuts for this and tax cuts for that, I don't see where it has helped me any. I am self employed and they kill me with self-employment tax ever year. <br />I keep paying more in taxes and don't get more in wages, but that is the way it has always been.<br />Everything goes up but your pay. :mad:
 

mellowyellow

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Amen brother! the IRS sure knows how to take all<br />the joy out of owning your own biz!
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Maybe I will sell my business, claim I'm disabled and just get a check each month, and get a medical card, food stamps and live life good. :D <br />Oh yea, then I could park in the handi-cap zone while in wal-mart getting fishing supplies to put on my new boat I bought with my Government check, while still doing business on the side and not telling anyone about it. :eek:
 

miloman

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

your funny SBN its the same up here the A$% doesnt know what the head is doing. I figured out with the accountant last year as a joke how many families I feed in this country the # was 5 so Id like to meet them. Same here with all the tax cuts. Here govt works a % on the gas tax so higher gas prices higher tax so they take from 1 hand give to the other. here is a fact $1.00 earned is 22% income taxes leaves 78% 15% provincial and government tax leaves63% hidden taxes account for another 29% leaves 32% so for every dollar earned you actually get 32% of it...................................................................... I dont get a thing except bad raods bad medical no army no child benifits (Iearn too Much) UNDERFUNDED SCHOOLS the list goes on and on and on what the heck do they do with all that money you know if governments were corporations they would be chapter 11
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Yea milo, it's like the ol' saying, "Take from Peter to pay Paul"
 

Homerr

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

YES!<br /><br />Too much tax for sure.<br /><br />Don't know if anyone outside Oregon has watched, but we recently told the state NO on measure 28 (temporary income tax increase)<br /><br />Yea right.... "Temporary"... like they would give it back later.<br /><br />After the defeat of it, they are all whining now about how we are going to lose money for schools, police, state aid, etc...<br /><br />Here was a good one...<br />Now that M28 went down, the sate is now saying that some people in some drug rehab center will no longer get some kind of treatment for their heroine addiction (or whatever it was) <br />They are trying to tell us that these people will now be forced BACK to a life of crime because they can't have their treatments. How do they know that?<br /><br />Hey, I'm sorry that they are drug addicts. I'm sorry they can't have their treatments. BUT I didn't shoot up. I didn't choose a life of crime.<br />I don't do drugs, so I'm not paying for another piece of garbage on the *ss of society!<br /><br />I think most of it was a scare tactic.<br />We had enough money before? What happened?<br /><br />Oregon has been trying to milk us for everything these past few years it seems. If they keep it up, I'm certain you'll see a mass-exodus out of here. I will. I've been thinking a lot about it in fact.<br /><br />Someone in the state needed a new car I think.<br /><br />H.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Yea, sometimes the states are worse than the feds.<br />Case in point, I can file my fed taxes for free, but oh no, not Kentucky, you pay for the software to file your state taxes. :mad:
 

mattttt25

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

our tax pays for sevices. police, fire, military, etc. all the bombs we're getting ready to drop will cost some money, and someone has to pay for them. i for one never complain about paying taxes. maybe because my/your tax paying dollars pay my sallary.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Greetings,<br /><br />I'm agree with SBN. I am a small biz owner and I am in the 43% bracket. Now, figure in all the other taxes we pay (sales tax on gas etc.) my take home pay is LESS than that of my neighbor who has four kids and makes half what I gross. Does that sound right to you Mattt?
 

mattttt25

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

never said the system was completely fair. actually, never said life was fair. i don't know you or your neighbor's specifics, so i can't really comment. but as a small business owner, you should be able to take advantage of numerous write-offs, etc. maybe you need to change your tax preparer.<br /><br />my point is simple. taxes pay for people to do things you don't want to do, but expect to be done- like get shot by a crook, putting out that fire, or die fighting in afghanastan.<br /><br />take care-
 

plywoody

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

I am getting all misty eyed with all of the tales of woe in this thread. It is sad.<br /><br />My brother and sister-in-law have their own businesses, and what with all the loop-holes available to them, and deductions, and what all, they are doing very well. I guess they hired better accountants! Don't get me wrong. They work hard for their money. they deserve their money. They are doing just fine. But then they price the cost of their taxes into the price of the services they offer.<br /><br />As far as Oregon goes, they held a job fair in Salem a couple of weeks back, and the states of Idaho and Utah, among others, were recruiting and hiring state police from the ones scheduled to be laid off. And the schools in Portland are down 20 days a year from the national standard 180 days. Now that is quite a bluff. Too bad that when some business needs employees, they are going to have to pick from the available talent, or locate their business somewhere else where there is a chance there might be qualified employees.<br /><br />As far as things like corporate taxes go, in my last 1040 instruction booklet, they published a handy dandy little pie chart showing the source of government funds, and corporate taxes made up a whopping 10% of that total. Compared to individual income tax of 50+%, and social security of 25% Those that paid that 10% probably need better accountants as well.<br /><br />Now in Miloman's case, I have some sympathy, as Canada is blessed with amazing amounts of publically owned natural resources, and what with a relatively small population, they ought to be by far the richest country in the world. Except for stupid government policies that protect inefficient and obsolete industries from competition and thereby turn a resource into a liability! It is truly amazing what they do north of the border. Canada is truly a special case!
 

magster65

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

The deductions off my check are 40 1/2% all together. How about that? The gas here just went to $3.75 a gallon and is expected to rise again this week, property tax is up 15% or so, home insurance went up the same, my RRSP's are worth about half of what they cost. The governments incompetency is responsible for most of this... oh but I get a 1% raise this year. That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
 
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DJ

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Two well known facts from the IRS. <br /><br />1. The top 5% of wage earners pay 50% of the total tax revenue. It gets more insidious farther down the scale. 10% of top wage earners pay 75% of the total tax bill.<br /><br />2. Corporations do not pay taxes, consumers do. Corporate taxes are included in the price of the products and services sold.
 

plywoody

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

What is your point, djohns?<br /><br />Taxes exist for one specific reasons:<br /><br /> To fund the needs of the government. Now those needs may be desirable, or wasteful, or whatever, but they are there nonetheless, and need to be funded, or politically eliminated.<br /><br />Tax policy, on the other hand, is designed specifically to generate the necessary funds while encouraging some behaviors while discouraging others in order to make the economy work as efficiently as possible.<br /><br />It is why, for example, we have tax incentives for corporate investment and the like.<br />It is how government tunes economic activity, and is used one way or another on a constant basis.<br /><br />For example, the government may make tax incentives for the very wealthy to cut their effective taxes so that they may invest that extra money in expanding businesses, hiring more people, and thereby expanding the economy.<br /><br />OTOH, we are currently in a situation where the economy has contracted, and we have something like 25 % unutilized capacity. Now in those circumstances, a person in the top brackets are not likely to invest that money, but rather sock it away, since they no doubt know that they could not sell the increased product that would result from that investment, had they made it.<br /><br />Giving a big tax break to the wealthy right now would more than likely result in less revenue to the government, with little in the way of economic benefit to the economy as a whole.<br /><br />Now, for example, if more consumer spending is required to get the economy moving again, and get that unutilized capacity up and going again, a tax cut to the middle class might just be the way to go, as they are likely to spend the extra money back into the economy, thereby requiring more goods and services to be produced, and some of that excess capacity used. Perhaps to the point of investment being made to increase capacity or productivity.<br /><br />Times change, problems change, and potential solutions change. You cannot properly go about looking at tax policy from a single viewpoint. Different policy has a different effect depending on different circumstances.<br /><br />It has absolutely nothing to do with what might be nebulously described as "fair".
 

mellowyellow

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

"longview" is a state of mind I guess. LOL<br />(just kidding Plywood). gettin' old and have<br />no patience any more ......<br />if'n corporations pay so little (10%) and they<br />also add it to the price of their product/service<br />they're winning twice. am I missing something?
 
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DJ

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Tax rates in the eighties were cut from 70% (top rate) to 29% (top rate). Revenues to the federal government tripled. That's right tripled. Look it up.<br /><br />Yes, there were large deficits coming out of the eighties. The extra money generated was spent to excess by a congress out of control.<br /><br />I have to live within a budget. If I'm short, I do not go into deficit spending nor can I go and confiscate more just because I think I need it.<br /><br />My tax rate is 39%. You can bet that if I could keep more of what I earn, I would invest more. That means buy more which means jobs for many.<br /><br />Governments, whether local or national first cut what many believe to be essential services, such as; fire, police, etc. They know that those will get the most press. It's all spin. Too many of us buy it too.<br /><br />I would be willing to bet that any half astute person could look at the any states books and cut 10-15% without anyone knowing it.<br /><br />If anyone doesn't feel they are paying enough, pay more. The IRS will gladly accept it as a "contribution".
 

BJM

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

I have always been curious about American tax rates. Your IRS seems very militant compared to Revenue Canada. I have always thought the overall American rates are much lower than in Canada. More Americans buy more new cars than Canadians, Americans also buy much more expensive vehicles than Canadians. How do you afford what you buy based on some of the examples cited above? Many goods that traditionally cost less in the US now cost less in Canada. Almost no piece of electronics gear is worth buying in the US anymore compared to 10 years ago. Still, the US standard of living seems higher, or maybe the range is bigger, the poor are poorer and the rich are richer? I would love to hear some feedback.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

You hit it bjm, the rich get richer while the poor gets poorer.<br />And plywoody, if the government would do all their tax cuts like they say they will, then we people that are self-employed would not have to price gouge the customers to make up the difference.
 
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DJ

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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

BJM,<br /><br />I think the difference is primarily in income.<br /><br />Along with that are high tax rates on other items than income tax.<br /><br />As an example, Canadians pay, what we here in the US feel, are high costs for products such as gasoline, tobacco, spirits.<br /><br />Canadians also pay more for equipment on automobiles that is not required here in the US. An example of that is daytime driving lights.
 
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