bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

gussy530

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Here is my problem I own a 1980 open bow 176 ssv Glastron. Top speed used to be 50+mph with speed prop on (14dia 19pitch Aluminum). Now in 1998 the engine was rebuilt and things were never the same since. The comression spark everything seemed good but the power speed and performance was terrible. Ten years later in 2008 I had had enough of the guy who rebuilt it and took it to another place (5th different place). This guy was honest and worth my time and money this time. After dyno testing the engine he found it was putting out less the 50% more like 35%. So the guy tore the head off to find the pistons were put in backwards! Much to his and my dismay the engine actually ran with the pistons backwards ( had it been the 1979 model the pistons would have stopped by hitting the head dumb luck for me). So the guy fixed the problem and off to the lake. Wow finally the boat works like it should. Luckly the backwards pistons caused no internal damage. (That is the history but here is the promblem) My speed has dropped to 35mph with top rpm of 5500 5600 with the prop I mentioned (14x19)) I know The fuel line has been piched a few time but that doesn't seem like it could be that. Any ideas? I should get the same results with this prop as before but maybe that isn't the right prop anyway. All the help I can get please?
 

kenmyfam

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

How is compression after all your troubles ??? Spark ???
What was your previous WOT RPM ??? for the 50 mph + ??
Welcome to iboats
 

Faztbullet

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Someones confused as you cannot install a crossflow piston backward as: it will not make a complete revolution with heads installed and if it did run it would beat the crap out of the heads and pistons. All 3.5 inch motors use the same piston from 1974 to 1991, 1978 is no different other than it was a high ring from factory and you cannot get high ring replacements. As for you prop problem it sound like it is slipping(hub) or cavatating(blowout)
 

gussy530

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Hub slipping that is a good thought I will check that (How would I do that)? . As for spark and compression it is all good. I can't remember exactly what the readings were but I can tell you the engine runs like a top now.
As for the pistons, it is possible to have them in backwards and have it run. I questioned this too and the guy that tore it down couldn't fathom it either so he sent me picuters. I wish I could fined them and I would post them.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

5500 5600 rpms maybe up to 6,000, is what that engine is suppose to turn. are you sure you are not carrying some unknown, unwanted weight? saturated foam. that vintage Glastron is known for that.
 

gussy530

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

I was thinking it might be that but I don't want to hear it that is a big job to fix it. I suppose if I were to put that boat on a scale it would tell me the truth about that. I am guessing the boat and engine would weigh about 1600ish is that right.
Although the boat has been stored for 7 or 8 years so what are the chances, plus it planes very fast.
I will weigh it and find out.
 

emdsapmgr

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

If the engine was not prepped for storage properly, it is possible that the carbs have some dried fuel in the passages from the 7-8 year long term storage. This dried fuel will not self-clean when you run new fuel through it. The dried fuel can restrict/limit fuel flow through the jets and passages, limiting horsepower. Possible you need to overhaul the carbs to insure these passages flow fuel properly. If the fuel passages are restricted, this also limits the flow of fuel and oil to the cyls and can cause a lean condition.
 

AEROCOOK

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

If the guy put the pistons in backwards during the rebuild, I wonder how competent he would be at setting the motor up after the rebuild?
It hasn't been mentioned yet so I will ask whether a link and sync has been performed recently? I picked up an easy 600 RPM at WOT by doing mine, mainly because my timing wasn't advancing as far as it needed to.
 

gussy530

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Thanks for the ideas guys! I am just guessing but the guy that fixed this muck up might have done a link and sync. I do know the carbs need to be replaced. They are worn out and can't be rebuilt but I can't find new ones anywhere. Does anyone have those kicking around? As far as the fuel system goes it has all been replaced from the tank to the carbs I just need carbs to complete it.
 

ondarvr

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

If you're currently reaching 5,600RPM at 35MPH with the same 19" prop, then you never did 50MPH with it before, the motor can't rev that high (well at least in this situation). If the prop was slipping at WOT the rubber bushing would be worn out in a very short period of time and you wouldn't be able to get on plane after that.

What makes you think the carbs are worn out and why can't they be rebuilt?
 

gussy530

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

The body of the carbs are worn were the linkage hooks up. So the shafts of the butterflys have way to much slop to them. I could machine them and install bushings but that is more of a band aid fix than anything. So that makes me believe they are worn out.
Good point about the hub. I guess if I plane quick it can't be slipping. Is it possible the carb settings are reducing my speed? I had the guy adjust these carbs for best idle. I know something isn't just right because of this slower speed.
 

iwombat

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Those carbs aren't adjustable (for better idle or otherwise). I have no idea what a person would adjust for "better idle".
 

jonesg

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

I read non reverseable pistons have been turned around and non adjustable carbs have been adjusted.
Whats next, maybe pay to have the non existent fuel injectors cleaned.
Whats going on with this engine?:D
 

ondarvr

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

If you're currently reaching 5,600RPM at 35MPH with the same 19" prop, then you never did 50MPH with it before, the motor can't rev that high (well at least in this situation). If the prop was slipping at WOT the rubber bushing would be worn out in a very short period of time and you wouldn't be able to get on plane after that.

What makes you think the carbs are worn out and why can't they be rebuilt?


Reread the first part of my post, there is no way you did 50MPH if you're using the same prop. If the motor was running much stronger back then and you used a different prop with more pitch, then you may have hit 50.

Is your tach correct and what are you checking your speed with?

I ran the numbers, at 5600RPM with a 19" prop and 10% slip, you should be able to do almost 50 MPH.

So there's something going on that we don't have info on yet.
 

ezeke

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

If you're currently reaching 5,600RPM at 35MPH with the same 19" prop, then you never did 50MPH with it before, the motor can't rev that high (well at least in this situation). If the prop was slipping at WOT the rubber bushing would be worn out in a very short period of time and you wouldn't be able to get on plane after that.

What makes you think the carbs are worn out and why can't they be rebuilt?

50 MPH at 5600 RPM with a 19 pitch prop is certainly possible with no slip and 6,000 RPM is also possible with this engine. What would not normally make sense is that the boat would now run at 35MPH at 5600 RPM with a 19 pitch prop. I would look at the setup and weigh the boat to see if it is waterlogged.
 

Faztbullet

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Yep next will be the heads have been shaved !!!:D
 

ondarvr

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

50 MPH at 5600 RPM with a 19 pitch prop is certainly possible with no slip and 6,000 RPM is also possible with this engine. What would not normally make sense is that the boat would now run at 35MPH at 5600 RPM with a 19 pitch prop. I would look at the setup and weigh the boat to see if it is waterlogged.


What I was getting at is that with that prop and RPM there would no way to get 50 back then and 35 MPH now with everything else being equal. "Before" I ran the numbers 5,600 RPM looked good and if it only did 35MPH now, then that would be about the right prop for it. Again before running the numbers, going from 35 MPH at 5600RPM to 50MPH with the same prop would require the RPMS to be higher than what the motor will do. After running the numbers he should be able to do 50 with that setup with 10% slip at 5743 RPM, that is if the ratio is 1.86

If the foam is waterlogged, or there's just a bunch of water in the bilge, its odd that his RPMs would be as high as 5600 at only 35MPH, they should be around 4020 at 35, although with the extra weight at WOT they may be higher. It would require a slip of almost 20% to reach 5600RPM at 35MPH.

35MPH at 5600 would use a 13.5 to 14" prop (10% slip). to get to 50MPH with the same prop would require it to run 8000 RPMs

That's why I said there's more to the story.
 

ezeke

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

I believe that the propeller gear ratio should be 13:26.
 

gussy530

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

Is this possible. My brother took the leg out in it prior to the engine going boom and before getting a chance to see how the used leg worked the engine went. So is it possible that the leg could be causing the lack of speed.
Is there different legs/gear ratio. I should have pulled the plug!!!!
 

Sea18Horse

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Re: bad history with 1980 140 V4 john (A Must Read)

So again, where are you getting your speed reading from? speedo pickup on the lower unit? fish finder? gps? If it's from the lower unit then a different lower unit could explain the discrepancy yes. In fact given the rpm readings you're seeing it's about the only thing that could explain it.

Cheers.....................Todd
 
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