battery recommendation pls

mattttt25

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Sep 29, 2002
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1997 sunbird neptune 200 cc. 1998 johnson 150 hp oceanrunner. gps, fishfinder, vhf, am/fm/cd radio, spreader lights.<br /><br />2 batteries with a 3 position switch (1 - all - 2). don't understand the tech talk when it comes to batteries, but operation as it is currently wired is this- i can turnover the engine and run all electronics from all switch positions.<br /><br />i'm replacing both batteries. my dad recommends i buy a good cranking battery and a good deep cycle. he says start the engine in position 1 (cranking) and run to wherever i'm going. when i stop the engine, switch to position 2 (deep cycle) and run my electronics. seems easy enough and makes sense to me.<br /><br />does this sound right? any opinions on the combination batteries? do they really work, and worth the extra money? any other thoughts?
 

mole2

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Dec 21, 2003
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Re: battery recommendation pls

The cranking battery and deep cycle battery is correct. But I would get rid of the straight 1-both-2-off battery switch and install three separate on/off switches. You CAN still use the original switch and one on/off switch to accomplish the same thing. The following article will be helpful in setting up a proper two battery system.<br /><br /> http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...langId=-1&catalogId=10001&advisor=464-465.htm <br /><br />Edit: old link stopped working.<br /><br />Install the switch(es), install a battery combiner, move all the house load to one battery and leave the cranking battery for just the start/run of the motor. Both batteries will charge and yet be isolated. You won't have to remember to move the switch all the time. In fact the only time you'd need to do anything with the switch(es) is in an emergency (dead battery, weak starter, etc).
 

Boatist

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Re: battery recommendation pls

Mattttt<br />Yes that will work and keep the starting battery charged, but your deep cycle will not charge. That would work fine for day trips if you charge your deep cycle when you get home each time.<br />I reccomened not turning the switch with the Key on or motor running. If you have the right type switch with a field disconnect circuit then you can turn switch with motor running and as long as every thing works right will not blow your alternator. Some switches if turned with motor running will blow alternator so better to turn with the motor off.
 

roscoe

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Oct 30, 2002
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Re: battery recommendation pls

A running outboard must always be connected to a battery ground. So I don't like the multi switch at all, for fear it could be switched off while the engine is running.<br /><br />Also, you are going to want power to your gps, fishfinder, and vhf, when the engine is running AND when it is off, or disabled.
 

mattttt25

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Re: battery recommendation pls

that was my concern- the deep cycle not getting charged by the engine. i'll have to absorb mole's recommendation and see how difficult it would be.<br /><br />i never switch when the engine is running. the switch is tucked in a closed battery compartment, so no worry of "by mistake".<br /><br />no opinion on the combination batteries? any other thoughts? thanks-
 

sloopy

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Re: battery recommendation pls

While running the switch would be on ALL thus charging both batteries.
 

Solittle

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Re: battery recommendation pls

Matt - I would charge one battery at a time since outboards don't put out a lot of juice. I charge one on the way to wherever I'm going and switch to the other for the way back (both are starting batteries). The deep cycle may take longer to get a full charge. Use both a volt meter and a hydrometer to test for full charge.
 

mole2

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Dec 21, 2003
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Re: battery recommendation pls

The system I described above coupled with the article from West Marine will charge both batteries from a low amperage O/B motor. While my Merc 125 hp carb motor only puts out max 18 amps, the house load on my Trophy 1802 is well below that. Allowing 2 amps for the VHF, 2 amps for the GPS, 2 amps for the CD player and 2 amps for the Fish Finder I still have 6 - 10 amps available for charging. YMMV.<br /><br />That said, I have an isolator installed to charge both batteries while keeping them isolated. The problem with the isolator (though it is less expensive than a combiner) is that if the sense wire is sensing low voltage on one battery it may cause overcharging on the other. Likewise if it's sensing good voltage on the battery it will undercharge the other. So if I start from the house batter and leave the switch there, the start battery is being overcharged (since the house battery will usually be the lower of the two). The combiner elimates this by paralleling the batteries during charging thereby charging both equally. This keeps both batteries fully charged without overcharging one or the other. And it will separate when both are equal.
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: battery recommendation pls

Most single-engine boats produced in the last thirty years are supplied with two nearly identical (and under-sized) marine batteries. Generally of the Group 27 designation, both batteries could be used interchangeably for starting and house loads. Prior to starting the engine, the operator would turn the battery switch to the BOTH position so that he or she had the full cranking power of the batteries. Once the engine started, the operator would leave the switch in the BOTH position while powering to the day's destination so that both batteries were charged. Once a sailboat began sailing sans engine, or a powerboat dropped the hook, the operator would (in theory) turn the battery switch to the 1 or 2 position, so that the other battery would be reserved for starting. When it was time to crank the engine again, the battery switch would be turned to BOTH, or possibly to the reserved battery, and the engine would be started. <br /><br />The problem, of course, is that this requires a lot of thought on the part of the operator, who is trying to relax in the first place. The inevitable result is that at some point, the boater accidentally leaves the battery switch in the BOTH position, resulting in two very dead batteries.<br /><br />We also take issue with using two identical batteries since boats have two distinct types of loads: long duration, low amperage loads when the engine (charging source) isn't running, and high amperage, short duration loads while starting. Using a pair of deep-cycle or dual-purpose batteries, or worse yet, starting batteries, for this application is inefficient.<br /><br />What's the solution?<br />We strongly recommend that you select and wire your batteries differently from the way the factory wired them. Use a stout starting battery to crank your engine, based on your engine's cranking requirements. Use a larger house battery with triple the capacity of your daily DC requirements. Now this is where it gets complicated: we DON'T recommend the use of a traditional OFF-1-BOTH-2 battery switch. Instead, consider using three OFF-ON battery switches as follows: one switch to connect your starting battery to your starter circuit; one switch to connect your house battery to your boat's distribution panel; and one switch to parallel your battery systems if either battery fails. <br /><br />With this switch set-up, you simply turn your engine and house switches to the ON position whenever you are onboard, whether anchored, starting your engine, or sailing. The battery parallel switch remains OFF unless there is a complete failure of either battery bank or you have run your starting battery down trying to crank a reluctant engine. When your engine is off, the starting battery is safely isolated from the house loads. It cannot be discharged, even if you leave your stereo on all night, listening to Jimmy Buffett and blending margaritas. <br /><br />How do I charge both banks simultaneously?<br />By isolating starting and house banks, you face a challenge trying to charge them from a single source like single-output chargers or alternators. If you violate the "separation" of the two banks, you face the probability of two dead batteries due to "operator brain-fade". That's why we are great believers in the West Marine Battery Combiner and Heart Pathmaker, Balmar Dual Output Alternators, and to a lesser degree, battery isolators. These products sense the voltage of the battery banks and connect the batteries together whenever one battery's voltage is elevated. Both banks charge simultaneously and remain combined until the voltage drops, whereupon they are disconnected from one another. It's much like having a very attentive engineer flip your battery parallel switch on and off at exactly the right moment. The result is maximum charging performance for two banks, and complete isolation of the two banks to ensure that you can start your engine. <br /><br />Do I have to scrap my present switch?<br />While you don't have to, we strongly recommend the use of simple-to-understand OFF-ON switches. Shoot, even your brother-in-law can probably figure out how to operate an OFF-ON switch, but might be completely baffled by a OFF-1-BOTH-2 switch. Alternatively, you can use your current battery switch, plus a second OFF-ON switch, but we think it becomes complicated to understand what each switch combination accomplishes. As an added benefit, the fact that the battery switches are seldom, if ever, operated while underway greatly reduces the chances of damaging your alternator by accidentally opening its output circuit.
 

gss036

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Jan 18, 2003
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Re: battery recommendation pls

Matt, I have run a setup like yours since 1989 and have only replaced my batteries one time, so I too am due for new batteries this spring. That being said, you get what you pay for in a battery, so spend the extra money and buy quality batteries. One the water is not like being stuck in a parking lot where you can stand around with jumper cables and some will drive up and ask if you need help.<br />I tralier my boat so I use a "BattertMinder"(pulse type) when it is in the barn and my batteries are charged and ready to go when I am.<br />I also use a 15hp kicker motor w/electric start, so it also charges while running.
 

mattttt25

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Sep 29, 2002
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Re: battery recommendation pls

thanks everyone, especially ralph with that longggggg post. still need to absorb all the info and make a good decision. boat comes out of the water today and will be layed up for about 3 months, so i have some time.
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: battery recommendation pls

mattttt25, I have twins with a 3 battery system. I use 4 switches and 2 West Marine combiner 150s. If you decide you want to go through the time and effort of putting in a world class system start trolling eBay now for the combiners. You can usually get them for about 50% off retail. You can also find the switches and marine grade wire and connectors you will need as well. It takes some effort and money, but once it is done, you have a very simple, robust system and never have to think about it again.
 
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