blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

[icyveins]

I have been slightly tickling my brains cells about some of the electronics that I plan on running on my ship. Throughout my thought process I started with the main pos/neg cables from engine. I plan on using a combined blue sea switch for my master power. I will be running two battery banks....

1 cranking battery- engine/bildge only

2 house batteries- fish finders,radio,leds,nav/anchor, washdown pump,aerator/livewell,blower(s),etc!

the crank battery will do only that!

house batteries will power everything else!

My question is....... how can I keep my cranking battery serperated from my house batteries. I have read that the blue sea switch actual when put onto the setting "both" it takes house and crank and puts them in parralel. I dont want to do that......... any help would or insight would be appreciated

 

[Silvertip]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Little confused here. You mention a "combined Blue Sea Switch", then you mention an ACR. How about posting some model numbers so we know exactly what you are looking at. If you are thinking about a dual battery switch (OFF, BAT 1, BOTH, BAT 2 settings) that is an entirely different device than an Automatic Charge Relay (ACR). With an ACR anytime the engine is running both batteries will be charged. When the engine is off the ACR isolates the start battery from the house battery. So I don't see what your concern is. With a dual battery switch "YOU" are in control where the juice comes from (engine off) and where it goes to (engine running). Dual battery switches have been discussed to death on this forum and there are all sorts of creative ways to wire and use them (most of them wrong by the way). So let us know WHAT you are looking at (Manufacturer and model number). Only then can we give you our opinions (and you will get many).

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Little confused here. You mention a "combined Blue Sea Switch", then you mention an ACR. How about posting some model numbers so we know exactly what you are looking at. If you are thinking about a dual battery switch (OFF, BAT 1, BOTH, BAT 2 settings) that is an entirely different device than an Automatic Charge Relay (ACR). With an ACR anytime the engine is running both batteries will be charged. When the engine is off the ACR isolates the start battery from the house battery. So I don't see what your concern is. With a dual battery switch "YOU" are in control where the juice comes from (engine off) and where it goes to (engine running). Dual battery switches have been discussed to death on this forum and there are all sorts of creative ways to wire and use them (most of them wrong by the way). So let us know WHAT you are looking at (Manufacturer and model number). Only then can we give you our opinions (and you will get many).

http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-7650-Add-A-Battery-System-with-ACR-and-Battery-Switch_p_11.html

Thanks Silver, I dont mean to kick a dead horse but I will be using the new version of the master switch by Blue The way that I understood the acr switch would always make sure cranking battery is at a certain voltage while running(charging) or not running.
what I am focused on is when we are moored together enjoying the day I can run any and all accesories and not have to worry about having enough to start the boat. I got a little confused when I read that the switch actually when in the "both" position runs house and crank batteries in parralel......

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Yes! In BOTH, they are BOTH in parallel;
But the ONLY reason to select BOTH, is if for some reason you killed the START Battery and needed to Start the engine from the HOUSE Battery. (Maybe you left the Ignition Key ON for a few days accidentally???)

Otherwise, the switch is normally set to ON, and left in that position for the whole season.
With the Engine OFF, The HOUSE Battery runs everything on the Boat and the START Battery is kept isolated in reserve for restarting the engine.

Once the Engine is restarted, and the START Battery reaches a charge of more than 13 volts, the ACR adds the house battery to the engine charging circuit and recharges the HOUSE Battery in parallel with the START Battery.

Within a minute or two of shutting Off the engine, the two batteries are once again separated to perform their designated tasks.

All switching is automatic with no input from you.
Some people will select the OFF position when leaving the boat unattended for periods longer than a few weeks. (Winter)

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Thats exactly what I am looking for, thanks for clearing up a few things for me I do greatly appreciate it. now its time to buy and install

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

This switch is a little different from a 1/2/Both switch. A 1/2/Both switch has one common terminal. With this switch, when you turn to ON, it connects house battery to house circuits and the other switch to engine circuits. You have to separate all your current connections so that they are sorted to the desired battery. If you don't want to do that, just buy a 1/2/Both switch and all you have to do is move the cable that currently goes to your battery positive terminal to the common terminal. That is what I have since I didn't want to separate all my circuits.

The ACR works by monitoring the voltage at both batteries. Once the voltage of either battery exceeds a certain threshold, it combines the 2.

You can use an ACR with either style switch. On my boat, I use the 1/2/Both and an ACR.

 

[dingbat]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Within a minute or two of shutting Off the engine, the two batteries are once again separated to perform their designated tasks.

It's not unusual for my two batteries to stay connected (ACR indicator lamp on) an hour or so after the engine is shut off

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

This switch is a little different from a 1/2/Both switch. A 1/2/Both switch has one common terminal. With this switch, when you turn to ON, it connects house battery to house circuits and the other switch to engine circuits. You have to separate all your current connections so that they are sorted to the desired battery. If you don't want to do that, just buy a 1/2/Both switch and all you have to do is move the cable that currently goes to your battery positive terminal to the common terminal. That is what I have since I didn't want to separate all my circuits.

The ACR works by monitoring the voltage at both batteries. Once the voltage of either battery exceeds a certain threshold, it combines the 2.

You can use an ACR with either style switch. On my boat, I use the 1/2/Both and an ACR.

Thanks Bruce,
since this pontoon is pretty much naked at this point it will be really easy for me to seperate all the circuits and designate them to the correct battery . I also plan on doing away with the 1987 technology (fuse) setup and going with a new style

ST Blade Fuse Block - 12 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover - Blue Sea Systems

also I wont be switching the positive side of the piece being powered (sonar, washdown,etc) I will be switching the grounds.

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

It's not unusual for my two batteries to stay connected (ACR indicator lamp on) an hour or so after the engine is shut off

do you have the remote led indicator? or just able to see the one on the ACR itself?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

also I wont be switching the positive side of the piece being powered (sonar, washdown,etc) I will be switching the grounds.

Please explain that a little bit. You never want to switch grounds.

Make sure all your gauges and anything associated with the motor are on the start battery. For example, you should be able to take the cables off your house battery completely and your engine, gauges, tilt, horn should all work.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

do you have the remote led indicator? or just able to see the one on the ACR itself?

There is one on the ACR. I will need to look at how long mine stays on. I am pretty sure mine disconnects faster than that.

The ACR will disconnect within 30 seconds when both batteries voltage goes below 12.75V. There will always be a surface charge on a battery after it has been charged. Depending how much parasitic load is on your system, it will be longer or shorter from one boat setup to the next.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

It's not unusual for my two batteries to stay connected (ACR indicator lamp on) an hour or so after the engine is shut off

An hour or more can be expected if you shut the engine, and everything else OFF, like at the end of the day.
The batteries will remain combined until the voltage drops below 12.75v for 30 seconds.
If you shut the engine off, but keep the radios and sonar and some lights ON. You will likely see the batteries isolate in about a minute.

 

[dingbat]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

There is one on the ACR. I will need to look at how long mine stays on. I am pretty sure mine disconnects faster than that.

The ACR will disconnect within 30 seconds when both batteries voltage goes below 12.75 V.

Two grp. 27 deep cycles. 60 amp alternator. 45-60 minute runs back to dock are common at the end of the day. 50/50 chance of light being on when I get back home. 1-1.5 hr travel time. Battery select in off position

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

I wont be switching the grounds instead of the hots (positive) side of whatever needs power.
I thought about and it doesnt make sense to run the grounds through the switches. thanks for talking me out of it Bruce! :director:

 

[icyveins]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

There is one on the ACR. I will need to look at how long mine stays on. I am pretty sure mine disconnects faster than that.

there is suppose to be a connection on the acr the run a remote led up to the dash

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Two grp. 27 deep cycles. 60 amp alternator. 45-60 minute runs back to dock are common at the end of the day. 50/50 chance of light being on when I get back home. 1-1.5 hr travel time. Battery select in off position

Of course the ACR will be connected if the engine is running. How long does it stay connected after you turn off the engine or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

Two grp. 27 deep cycles. 60 amp alternator. 45-60 minute runs back to dock are common at the end of the day. 50/50 chance of light being on when I get back home. 1-1.5 hr travel time. Battery select in OFF Position.

With the switch in OFF there will be no load on the batteries and the 13-14 v surface charge after the run to the dock is going to take a while to fade down below 12.7.
So the ACR remaining in Combine for an hour or more would not be unusual.

A stop on the water with a bunch of accessories still powered up would give much different results.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

there is suppose to be a connection on the acr the run a remote led up to the dash

I never do that when I install one. Not sure of the purpose of it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

With the switch in OFF there will be no load on the batteries and the 13-14 v surface charge after the run to the dock is going to take a while to fade down below 12.7.
So the ACR remaining in Combine for an hour or more would not be unusual.

The ACR itself draws 175mA when in combine mode. That by itself should bring down the surface charge very quickly.

 

[Gator1996]

Re: blue sea master/ acr isolation switch setup

I installed my Blue Sea system just as you have described. I have my starting battery and bilge with float switch on the start battery. Stereo, LED lighting, Fish finder, switched bilge etc. all on house battery.

I had the original wiring harness and everything operating properly so I actually just terminated the original power wires that supplied the console from the battery, both positive and ground. I then ran 8 gauge cable to the bow from the Blue sea battery #2 to supply power to a bus panel and then to the fused switch panel. Also ran 8 Gauge for the ground to the bus. If I have a switched accessory, like the stereo, I installed that with an inline fuse and power from the bus and use the switch after the battery switch is "on"

I am not sure that the ACR actually goes out and looks at the house battery or battery #2 to check voltage as it seems has been stated above, the ACR will break connection or not combine at all if the combined voltage is less than 12.75 for more than 30 seconds or over 14.6 for over 90 seconds I believe.

I will say that the battery switch does operate just as advertised, I found a regulator issue with my alternator when the batteries would not combine (the alternator was supplying 16 volts so to protect battery #2 it would not combine) a new regulator fixed the problem and now the batteries combine as intended. I did run a wire for the starter isolation but not for the external LED. I think it a good thing to know that the batteries are combined or not but mine is easily accessible if I want to look and I don't want to run yet another wire to the bow.

I am satisfied with what I got for sure, there is a considerable "hidden" expense when it comes to the fuses and cables though. This probably doubled my cost of the actual Add A Battery package but it does seem to be idiot proof. I'm not sure what your alternator output is but I have a 55 amp alternator so after consulting Blue Sea tech support I went with the blue sea 65 Amp "mini" version this saved me about $40 from the one you posted. If you have other questions, I 'll be glad to help. Good luck.