Boat Surveyors?

[BigDog98]

What do boat surveyors look and check for before purchasing a boat? I am looking into buying a new boat and i got a boat surveyor to come and look at the boat but i wanna make sure that he is doing and checking like he is suppose to before i put money down on a boat? Could anyone tell me what they test/check or look for when being done> Thank You

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Hey there BD, to help narrow down some specific information of what the surveyor should be looking for, what type or model boat are you looking to purchase?

 

[tazrig]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

BD,
Basically they should go over everything electrical, mechanical, structural, engine(s) related and cosmetic appearance and give you a written report which tells you what if anything they found. How urgent it is to get fixed such as has to be done now, should be done soon or will need to be done in the next year or two. And how big of a job each thing needing repairing is so you'll have some idea of the cost involved and either re-negotiate the price or pass on the boat. (same as a house inspection)

As Fun stated above if we know exactly what you are looking to buy we can better advise you on the systems they should be checking.

 

[bilge rat jim]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Here's a good example of a pre-purchase survey.
http://www.floridasurveyors.com/docs/Sample_Marine_Survey_Report.pdf

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

I am looking to get a 270 Rinker.

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Do the surveyor do the compression test? Or do they only do that once you purchased the boat?

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Do the surveyor do the compression test? Or do they only do that once you purchased the boat?

You want to get an engine "mechanical inspection" done before you put an offer in on the boat and buy it; other wise it will be too late should something be found.
Here in SoCal, that's a different process than getting a "survey" done on the boat.

If you take a look at the pdf that BRJ provided, you'll see that even on a $2+ million valued boat, a true inspection of the engines was not performed. Merely obtaining an oil sample that was sent out for analysis.

Mark

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

So basically i will be tacking a shot in the dark because i can only do the full tests when i have possession of the boat. But the surveyor just looks at the over all condition of the boat and does not go to much in detail with it.

 

[Walt T]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

I do surveys. I'm a mechanic so I can do mechanical tests such as compression, running on muffs, checking shift cables, interrupter, etc. I can't always get the boat on the water so that limits the scope. I always say to do an on water test drive. if they say no, move on. Checking the hull for water intrusion and damage is probably the single most important checks especially the transom. Check the back for any water / gurgling when you thump the transom. Check the rear pad/transom for 'hook', check underneath for beach and trailer damage. Get under the engines with a mirror and look for rust and a bad looking starter. Starter bolts... Both better be there. You'd be surprised how many I have seen with broken starter bolts. That is an indicator of an engine that once locked up. Look carefully in the bilge with a very bright flashlight for water lines indicating the bilge once filled with water. If it is above the bottom end of the motor, you will NOT buy it without a full mechanical inspection. Ask and see what you're told. Anything seems like a lie or false truth, get the heck away. Checking oil in motor is obvious, Loosen the lower unit(s) drain plugs until juuuust a little oil comes out from around the threads. If water or white oil comes out you are done with that boat. I like to loosen drive shaft bellows and see if water comes out.

Believe me yesterday and listen to me tomorrow.... The single most important tools you can own right now are spark plug wrenches and sockets, a compression tester gauge, AND a bore scope. Bore scopes are fun to fool around with when you're tuning up your lawn mower and snow blower. Mechanics know what I mean. Our definition of fun is what some consider work. You can buy all those inexpensively at Harbor Freight. I use tools for pulling drive plugs and have had to use impact drivers to knock those loose which is never a good sign. Actually have had some outboard drive cases with zero lube in them. Prop removal tools are a must. If the prop wont come off.. well...

I could write all day on props, but the key is not really damage, but a prop that is the wrong diameter and pitch for the engine, drive ratio, and size of the boat. Happens all the time. The seller wants to sell his nice stainless hi five on E bay rather than let it go with the boat.

Repeat to yourself over and over... I will not buy a boat without an on water test drive........

It's not guess work, its not a shot in the dark. It's a logical process. I've surveyed boats that were just great, others that were total junk and the sellers were mad and agitated. Even had buyers so focused on one boat they bought anyway despite my warnings. Never did hear how that went.

And THEN we start checking the trailer..

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Think you want to hire somebody like Walt. See if your surveyor will do what Walt details.

Having said that, it's the surveyor's job, like a house inspector, to find potential problems. In a used boat, you still have to decide what your threshold is, maybe what you can reasonably fix or update yourself if money is an issue (always is with boats, of course). I've dealt with surveys as both a buyer and a seller (houses too). Reports can be intimidating to both.

 

[Brian 26]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Great post Walt.

I have bought a lot of boats and never had a survey done. Here's my take on it- A surveyor is only human, he's not going to have Xray vision and a crystal ball that can tell you if/when something is going to break and I would think that most are not as diligent as what Walt has described (although that is just a guess). I read that PDF that was linked and there is a lot of fluff in there, one of those deals where you have to beef up the amount of pages to help justify the fee.

On the other hand A full inspection like what Walt described could take hours and I highly doubt a seller is going to let an average buyer start removing drain plugs, hoses and bellows. I know I wouldn't. However they may let a professional do it so in that sense if you want all that piece of mind you need a survey.

If I was spending 30k+ on a boat that I had some questions about I would pay for the survey and ask a lot of questions of the surveyor. But $10k or $20k on a boat that looks good from the buyers inspection and has a successful water test there is not a lot of need for it.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Could anyone tell me what they test/check or look for when being done> Thank You

Yes, the boat surveyors! Seriously, don't ask a bunch of folks on the internet. Call up the surveys and ask what they specifically check. Make your own checklist and compare each surveyor. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no standard so each will do it differently. Meet the surveyor if you can to gauge their knowledge and enthusiasm. I like Walt's attitude because he knows the warning signs and the most important motto - walk away if it doesn't seem right. Somebody can check all of the stuff you want but if he isn't willing or capable of telling you to walk away, then walk away from the surveyor.

 

[Starcraft5834]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

see if you can take it to a marine shop of your choice and have them go over it........if the person selling it objects.. that's a clue.......a "surveyor" is, or should be.. a marine mechanic with the knowledge and tools to do the same job... do what u want, they are essentially the same...

 

[tazrig]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Great post Walt.

I have bought a lot of boats and never had a survey done. Here's my take on it- A surveyor is only human, he's not going to have Xray vision and a crystal ball that can tell you if/when something is going to break and I would think that most are not as diligent as what Walt has described (although that is just a guess). I read that PDF that was linked and there is a lot of fluff in there, one of those deals where you have to beef up the amount of pages to help justify the fee.

On the other hand A full inspection like what Walt described could take hours and I highly doubt a seller is going to let an average buyer start removing drain plugs, hoses and bellows. I know I wouldn't. However they may let a professional do it so in that sense if you want all that piece of mind you need a survey.

If I was spending 30k+ on a boat that I had some questions about I would pay for the survey and ask a lot of questions of the surveyor. But $10k or $20k on a boat that looks good from the buyers inspection and has a successful water test there is not a lot of need for it.

I have been boating for close to 45 years and I consider myself somewhat competent in checking out a boat to determine if it is in good shape or not. I would still have a survey done before buying a boat. If you choose not to thats up to you. This forum is full of posts about people who didn't get surveys or take a sea trials before purchasing and got screwed. You said that surveyors don't have x-ray vision... but they do. they have meters that can show moisture, trapped water inside of transoms and the rest of the hull along with other structural defects not visible to the human eye. They have scopes that can show them the inside of a motors and drives without disassembling them and they (the good ones) have years of hands on experience spotting very specific problems that even an experienced boater might miss. The bottom line is this, you find a boat you like and make an offer contingent on a full professional survey including a sea trial. If the seller says no then you find another boat. If you want to roll the dice and take your chances with even 10k-20k (as you put it) instead of spending cheap money to be sure than good luck to you. I hope you are one of the lucky ones but the odds are against you.

 

[Brian 26]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Not sure how you can say the odds are against me when you've never seen a boat I've bought.

Buying a used boat is a roll of the dice, survey or no survey. Having the survey decreases the chances of issues later but increases the amount of money out of your pocket. As I've said there are times when I'd have one done but the notion that you have to get one or your boat is doomed is ridiculous.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Not sure how you can say the odds are against me when you've never seen a boat I've bought.

Buying a used boat is a roll of the dice, survey or no survey. Having the survey decreases the chances of issues later but increases the amount of money out of your pocket. As I've said there are times when I'd have one done but the notion that you have to get one or your boat is doomed is ridiculous.

Buying a used boat doesn't have to be a roll of the dice. If you know the boat inside and out you can make an informed decision. If you know what to look for and have the experience then you're chances are reduced in getting a lemon. For the beginner it's just a bad call not to have a survey. For the fraction of the total cost of the boat that a survey costs it's just a bad call not to have it done. It's like those people who don't winterize correctly because "what are the chances it's going to freeze in my case?" Maybe they get lucky maybe they need a whole new block come spring. For the little bit of extra work (and or money) it takes to do it right... like I said you're rolling the dice. and by "you're" I mean people in general.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Not many (any?) surveyors where I live. In looking at one boat, I got a recommendation for a good boat shop and explained to them I was a novice boat buyer. For a couple hundred bucks, they checked the engine, the drive and mechanicals. They also looked around at the general condition of the hull, etc.

They found a bunch of problems -- non-marinized parts, bad gimbal bearing, and do on. They also found evidence hidden in the back of the engine bay that the boat had been under water to the deck! I got away from that boat, and the two hundred dollars seemed like a pretty good deal, in retrospect. No way I would have known about most or any of those problems.

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

I do surveys. I'm a mechanic so I can do mechanical tests such as compression, running on muffs, checking shift cables, interrupter, etc. I can't always get the boat on the water so that limits the scope. I always say to do an on water test drive. if they say no, move on. Checking the hull for water intrusion and damage is probably the single most important checks especially the transom. Check the back for any water / gurgling when you thump the transom. Check the rear pad/transom for 'hook', check underneath for beach and trailer damage. Get under the engines with a mirror and look for rust and a bad looking starter. Starter bolts... Both better be there. You'd be surprised how many I have seen with broken starter bolts. That is an indicator of an engine that once locked up. Look carefully in the bilge with a very bright flashlight for water lines indicating the bilge once filled with water. If it is above the bottom end of the motor, you will NOT buy it without a full mechanical inspection. Ask and see what you're told. Anything seems like a lie or false truth, get the heck away. Checking oil in motor is obvious, Loosen the lower unit(s) drain plugs until juuuust a little oil comes out from around the threads. If water or white oil comes out you are done with that boat. I like to loosen drive shaft bellows and see if water comes out.

Believe me yesterday and listen to me tomorrow.... The single most important tools you can own right now are spark plug wrenches and sockets, a compression tester gauge, AND a bore scope. Bore scopes are fun to fool around with when you're tuning up your lawn mower and snow blower. Mechanics know what I mean. Our definition of fun is what some consider work. You can buy all those inexpensively at Harbor Freight. I use tools for pulling drive plugs and have had to use impact drivers to knock those loose which is never a good sign. Actually have had some outboard drive cases with zero lube in them. Prop removal tools are a must. If the prop wont come off.. well...

I could write all day on props, but the key is not really damage, but a prop that is the wrong diameter and pitch for the engine, drive ratio, and size of the boat. Happens all the time. The seller wants to sell his nice stainless hi five on E bay rather than let it go with the boat.

Repeat to yourself over and over... I will not buy a boat without an on water test drive........

It's not guess work, its not a shot in the dark. It's a logical process. I've surveyed boats that were just great, others that were total junk and the sellers were mad and agitated. Even had buyers so focused on one boat they bought anyway despite my warnings. Never did hear how that went.

And THEN we start checking the trailer..

Thank you Walt. I talked to the guy and the boat is currently winterized at a marina. When i asked him if we could start up the engine to see how she ran he told me there was drive on the boat. SO i said it was no problem and we could still run water through the engine. Then i told him if i liked the boat then if there was a way he could get the boat in the water for a test run. And he kinda responded like i could work something out. Later on we crawled onto a discussion of the engine and all its details and specs. He told me that he rebuild the engine last season and i asked him if he had a proof and he responded of a answer that he might have. Over all the engine has 200 hours on it.

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

Great post Walt.

I have bought a lot of boats and never had a survey done. Here's my take on it- A surveyor is only human, he's not going to have Xray vision and a crystal ball that can tell you if/when something is going to break and I would think that most are not as diligent as what Walt has described (although that is just a guess). I read that PDF that was linked and there is a lot of fluff in there, one of those deals where you have to beef up the amount of pages to help justify the fee.

On the other hand A full inspection like what Walt described could take hours and I highly doubt a seller is going to let an average buyer start removing drain plugs, hoses and bellows. I know I wouldn't. However they may let a professional do it so in that sense if you want all that piece of mind you need a survey.

If I was spending 30k+ on a boat that I had some questions about I would pay for the survey and ask a lot of questions of the surveyor. But $10k or $20k on a boat that looks good from the buyers inspection and has a successful water test there is not a lot of need for it.

Asking price is 35k

 

[BigDog98]

Re: Boat Surveyors?

my surveyor would not tell me for sure. He said its up to the owner on what he will allow him to check.