boat won't start

[bloxhamboy]

i have a 1986 115 hp yamaha, has run fantastic for a long time but this spring it didn't want to startafter i had run it for awhile and and then all of a sudden it will start. it almost acts like flooding but i'm leaning towards spark. does anyone have any ideas?

 

[99yam40]

Re: boat won't start

test spark while problem is happening to see

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

test spark while problem is happening to see

i took the boat into the shop and the repairman says no spark in 1 and 3 he says the stator is bad and has ordered one. does this sound right?

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

I took the boat into the shop and the repairman says no spark in 1 and 3, he says the stator is bad and had ordered one. does this sound right?

 

[GoogieMan]

Re: boat won't start

from my understanding The stator Generates current etc and the CDI/Trigger Generate and Distribute spark
if stator was fried then you wouldnt get anything?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: boat won't start

I agree with googiman.
the stator low speed charge coil lights ALL the spark at low speeds, lose it and lose all 4.
that engine uses two pulser coils to time the spark one for cyl 1&3 the other for cyl 2 and 4.
my guess would be a pulser coil.
my method would be peak voltage output tests while observing my spark tester.

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

thanks for all your suggestions, unfortunately i am a contractor and not a mechanic. i will talk to my repairman on tuesday after the holiday and relate to him what you have said. thanks again

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

Dear Googieman and Rodbolt,
i talked to my mechanic today and he has stator ordered and on its way. i suggested that pulser coil could be the underlying problem and he said absolutely noway nohow, problem has to be stator or cdi. he is certified by Yamaha and i know he has been in touch with Yamaha dealer in IdahoFalls. Yamaha dealer wouldn't work on my motor because it's older than a 1990. wish i could say to my customers i can't work on your house it's too old. anyway i hope he's right because a pulcer coil is as much as a stator.

 

[douglloyd]

Re: boat won't start

I'm going with CDI that's what happened to mine. I can sell you a slightly used but perfectly good pulsar coil.

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

thanks for your reply Douglloyd i will know shortly if stator fixes my problem, it should be shipped to I.f. in a day or two. Googieman and Rodbolt have me convinced its the Pulser coil. if it is the pulser i will write and see if we can make a deal on yours. thanks again

 

[rodbolt]

Re: boat won't start

why not simply test it.
dang parts is expensive.
look on your techs wall for a master tech cert, I am looking at mine.
look on his wall for at least electrical school certs.
most likly aint got that either.
simply look in the book and it tells you the wire colors for the pulser coils for 1&3 and 2&4.
the stator voltage is common to 1,2,3 and 4, lose it and you lose 1,2,3 and 4.
however its a 10 min test to test CDI inputs and outputs.
15 if I stop for a smoke.
or buy a CDI, a stator and both pulsers and go boating.

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

thanks for your reply Rodbolt, it would be nice if you were closer to my boat so i could bring it to you. i hate to second guess my mechanic because he came highly reccommended to me but after talking to you and others i'm starting to wonder. he claims there is no test available for the cdi and i hate to badger him every other day about what he's doing. i know one thing duck and goose season starts in less than a month and i can't go unless i have my jetboat running, anyway thanks for your comments and advice

 

[rodbolt]

Re: boat won't start

there is a test for the CDI, its called test both high and low speed charge coils,loaded.
test both pulser coil output voltages to the CDI, loaded, and test CDI output.
takes two test adapters and a peak reading meter and maybe 10 minutes.
if all inputs are good and CDI output is bad the CDI is bad.
if an input is bad then test the device.,
just cause someone has a tool box does not make them a tech.

 

[GoogieMan]

Re: boat won't start

there is a test for the CDI, its called test both high and low speed charge coils,loaded.
test both pulser coil output voltages to the CDI, loaded, and test CDI output.
takes two test adapters and a peak reading meter and maybe 10 minutes.
if all inputs are good and CDI output is bad the CDI is bad.
if an input is bad then test the device.,
just cause someone has a tool box does not make them a tech.

couldnt agree more

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

dear Googieman and Rodbolt, your not going to believe this or maybe you already knew what was going to happen. I called my mechanic on tuesday and said how's my boat coming, did the part come in? he said oh yeah it came in but i'm waiting on another part, he says he got spark back in 3 cylinders but now he had to order a cdi because the old stator took the cdi out. wouldn't it be good business to let someone know when you were spending their money. i'm so pissed i think i'll just go pick up my boat because obviously this guy is just shooting in the dark. what a disappointment

 

[rodbolt]

Re: boat won't start

I think P.T. Barnum once said there is one born every minute.
I also think Albert Einstien said there are two things that are limitless.

ya got had.
save your old parts at least one of them is still good.
please ask to see not only the school certificate from yamaha for electrical and write down the model number of the peak reading meter or the peak reading meter adapter he used to test the system.
well at least if ya chunk a set of pulsers on it the ign generating portion will be mostly new.
if he cannot show you the certificates or how he measured PEAK outputs from the stator,pulsers and CDI outputs to the ign coils I would ask to negotiate and at least pay only dealer cost for the parts.
look at it this way, the low speed and high speed charge coils simply supply current to charge the two CAPACITORS in the CDI,hence the term Capacitive Discharge Ignition.
now the caps are charged, there is an SCR between the cap and the coil primary .
an SCR is a voltage controled current controlling device.
Silicone Controlled Rectifier.
all the SCR is doing is waiting on a trigger signal to turn on,think of it as an electronic valve.
once the gate voltage threshold voltage is met the SCR turns on and discharges the capacitor into the ign coil primary windings.
as the cap current dissapates the SCR turns off and awaits the next trigger voltage pulse.
takes maybe 15 minutes to test your V4 yamaha system.
as both charge coils and both pulser coils are two wire coils you can see an open or short to ground on a wire with a simple peak output test.
open circuit means NO stator or pulser output,a wire shorted and you get 1/2 the expected voltage.
takes 2 minutes to test all 4 coils under the flywheel for shorts to ground.
thats the ONLY resistance test that I EVER trust. all the rest are teats on a boar hog.
from there I ONLY use DVA peak reading loaded and unloaded voltages and the spec guide.
makes life quick simple easy and on to the next queen mary.

 

[GoogieMan]

Re: boat won't start

Unfortunate set of events your having champ, i was once told what the word BOAT stood for when i was building my boat

Burn
Off
Another
Thousand

thisis true, But in your case i think it could of been avoided

 

[bloxhamboy]

Re: boat won't start

dear Rodbolt and Googieman, i was really upset all night so i called my mechanic first thing this morning to let him know i wasn't pleased with his diagnosing or spending my money without some consultation. i read him your words on how to test a cdi and he claims that the yamaha book shows no test for cdi. he couldn't give me a price for the new cdi but said if that didn't fix it i wouldn't have to pay for it. same thing for the stator but he claims the stator was bad. if the stator is bad and the cdi is bad i asked how come my boat will start sometimes,he doesn't have a clue. i will be sure to get old parts and he said i will get the new parts for his price which i assume will be close to what i can find them on line for. i am going to print your last responses and give them to him when i pick the boat up, maybe he will learn something. I sure appreciate everyones advice and comments.
.

 

[douglloyd]

Re: boat won't start

That's how I got that spare pulsar coil, the guy guessed wrong!
So I took it to the regional Yamaha guys and they diagnosed it and sold me a used CDI for half price.
There is a common thought that the CDI is bullet proof on theses motors so the mechanics goes there last.

 

[GoogieMan]

Re: boat won't start

i just had a CDI fail also it intermittantly dropped out one cyl then would return an hour later or if i wanted spark earlyer id give it a bit of a tap
if i lost cyl 1+3 or 2+4 it would be safe to firstly assume a pulser had failed.
But there are tests to make sure witch Rodbolt said only take 15mins and would save alot of money and frustration.