Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
hi guys I stole this info off an email list and thought it was interesting!<br /><br />
DECEMBER SOUND OFF:<br />This week the Supreme Court opened the door for boating accident lawsuits<br />when it ruled that a federal law does not protect manufacturers from being<br />sued in state court. The justices were unanimous in their decision that a<br />widower could sue Mercury Marine over the 1995 death of his wife, who was<br />killed in Tennessee after she fell off a speedboat and into the propeller.<br />The widower claimed the motor was defective and that Mercury Marine should<br />have installed a propeller guard, although the installation is not a federal<br />requirement. What do you think?<br /><br />Email us your answer at customercare@marisafe.com<br /><mailto:customercare@marisafe.com?subject=December Sound Off> with "December<br />Sound Off" in the subject line. If we publish your comments, you'll receive<br />a classy MariSafe waterproof safe with lanyard for safekeeping your keys,<br />license, credit cards, cash, etc. while you boat, snorkel, swim or ski.<br /><br />Hi,<br />I just wanted to comment on the lawsuit against Mercury Marine. Whereas<br />propeller guards may help reduce incidents of injury, I fail to see why<br />Mercury Marine is liable. To me, the #1 reason for boating-related injury<br />or death is stupidity on the part of the owner/operator. No mater how many<br />safety devices are installed or protective measures are taken to try and<br />protect boaters, some clever moron will figure out a way to injure or kill<br />him (or her) self, or someone else. Bottom line is that stupid kills. No<br />number of lawsuits will change that fact. For the lawsuit mentioned above,<br />my question to the widower would be, "How did your wife come to fall into<br />the water in the first place?" If it was from a boat's wake, sue the boat<br />owner that caused the wake. If it was from the wife not sitting down, sue<br />the boat manufacturer for not installing seatbelts (I'm being silly). How<br />about suing the lake for causing the widower and his late wife to be boating<br />there in the first place (now I'm being ridiculous...)?<br />Lawsuits are getting way out of hand - especially those that are brought on<br />due to the plaintiff's behavior. This lawsuit stinks of the same thing:<br />"I'm sorry your honor, but I'm stupid (or I did something stupid). I blame<br />the Mercury Marine company because they knew I was stupid, but didn't do<br />everything they could to protect my wife from my stupidity..." Why can't<br />we, as Americans and consumers, put a stop to all these type of lawsuits by<br />enacting a "stupid" law? We should give the judges the power to tell<br />people, "I'm sorry that you are stupid, did something stupid, or are stupid<br />enough not to know you were doing something stupid at the time, but the<br />company that made the item that you did something stupid with is not liable<br />for your stupidity. Case dismissed - and try not to do anything stupid on<br />your way home..."<br />Nothing can be 100% idiot-proof, so why do we allow idiots to do something<br />stupid and then pay them for their stupidity? If you think about it, if we<br />stop paying the idiots for being/doing stupid, we might reduce the number of<br />stupid things stupid people do? The idiots might realize that they can't<br />sue because they are stupid and therefore just might be more careful and<br />actually THINK about what they are doing. Of course the natural law of<br />selection continues to effectively work when idiots do something really<br />stupid that results in their demise, but why make someone else pay for their<br />stupidity? Our laws are in place to protect the innocent, not the stupid.<br />Thank you for allowing me to vent - I hate stupidity (especially when that<br />stupidity costs me in time or money - or both...)
this replys here come from someone named lee
 

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

it was also on .N.P.R.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Hey Sloop,<br />People will always do stupid things. But as I understand it, the Captain of the Boat is always responsible for the crew(People) on his vessel. It has been this way for as long as I can remember. The responsibility has to fall somewhere in a situation like the one you mentioned. Now if the boat blew up because a Gas attendent was neglegent and dumped fuel in the Water holding tank(This did happen last summer where I boat), then it would be obvious where to lay blame, or would it? Should the Captain have made sure it was done properly? I think so! Just like these fools with the Hot Coffee getting burned and sueing McD's and Now it's Burger King that's getting sued. How stupid can you be to think your coffee is not going to be hot? How stupid can you be to sit on the gunwales of a fast moving boat? But I see it all the time. Where does it stop??
 

SlowlySinking

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
897
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Hi Sloopy, regarding this reason for this offer and not to sound like a wise _ss but wouldn't a prop guard be an appropriate prize? <br /><br />Email us your answer at customercare@marisafe.com<br /><mailto:customercare@marisafe.com?subject=December Sound Off> with "December<br />Sound Off" in the subject line. If we publish your comments, you'll receive<br />a classy MariSafe waterproof safe with lanyard for safekeeping your keys,<br />license, credit cards, cash, etc. while you boat, snorkel, swim or ski.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

SlowlySinking <br />That would be too much like right!! Plus, I here "Waterproof Safes" have saved many lives! :D
 

wswaneyw

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
75
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Agree with all above. Common sense is a long lost traite amongst a few people. This would be no differant that if you were driving down the highway and changed lanes without using your turn signal and end up running someone off the road and killing them. Why wouldnt you sue the manufactorer for YOU not using the turn signal?? I have seen numerous boats flying up and down the river and its the normal scene,,,, Stereo up loud, WOT, beer in one hand, telephone in the other. And inevitabley these are the same boats being loaded up on trailers with in-transit tags on them. Would it be a good idea before people purchase boats to pass some sort of a common knowledge test before they can buy a boat??? Or would we have to sue the Coast Guard everytime there is an accident. Food for thought.
 

Reel Appeal

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
566
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Sloopy,<br /> I agree with you.I fail to see how Mercury Marine can be held liable for an accident on the water(in this case).It is the skippers sole resposibility for the safety of his/her passengers.Did you happen to read my post in "Thoughts of the Day"?It touches on what you mention here.....I also beleive that mandatory licenses are needed for boat operators,just like your drivers license.Captains that carry paying passengers(for hire)are required to have passed a USCG exam and carry a Captains license(ie.6pack license).I think this idea should be carried further into the boating public....I'd like to have a dollar everytime I saw a rich boat owner with a new boat,little knowledge about the boat and NO knowledge about "The Rules of the Road"<br />I see it every summer where I'am and have to keep my head on a 360 degree swivel while on the water.<br />Imagine,a new boat owner with a 40 foot boat that goes 80-100mph with NO drivers license and No previous experience.Very scary....
 

Tacklewasher

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,588
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Rick<br /><br />"Just like these fools with the Hot Coffee getting burned and sueing McD's and Now it's Burger King that's getting sued. How stupid can you be to think your coffee is not going to be hot?"<br /><br />I don't disagree with your sentiment, but do some searching on the McDonalds case before using it as an example. This was not the case the media presented but was more along the lines of McDonalds had been told to lower the temp of the coffee by authorities and chose not to. This was a case that had validity despite how the media presented it.<br /><br />I read the story on it recently on a forum (may even have been here) and will try to find the link.<br /><br />But I do agree with your point of view.<br /><br />Found the link (it was from here)<br /> http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

I don't know Tackle. When I get coffee somewhere, I expect it to be hot and take precautions not to dump it on myself. I certainly don't stick it between my legs and try to open it! Just common sense and a strong desire to keep my "Parts" intact. I also don't let people stand in my boat while underway or hang off any part of it while moving. I also shut the engine down when someone is getting in the water, if only for a moment. I have everyone get off when I refuel, just in case. These things are just common sense. I don't expect the motor to jump in gear if someone is in the water. I don't expect someone to fall overboard while standing and I don't expect my boat to explode while fueling. But, these things do happen and I sure try to avoid these type of things from happening to me, by using past knowledge and common sense. This is only my opinion.
 

MGuckin

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
760
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Just my opinion.<br />We, as a whole, are very greedy, money grubbing, sue happy and selfish country lacking in common sense.<br />Some of the liability suits entered into court are ludicrous. <br />However, it is supposed to be our right to sue our neighbor if we slip on their sidewalk after it snows and they didn't clear it fast enough, or if we were robbing them and got cut on the glass from the broken window that we broke and used as a point of egress.<br />I shot my hand with a nail gun yesterday. Who do I sue? The nail gun manufacturer, the pin nail manufacturer, the air hose manufacturer or the compressor manufacturer? How about my parents?<br />Maybe Ford, they made my truck.<br />Lawsuits are not the answer. <br />How about education and a slap upside the head.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Ouch, a Nail gun! That had to smart! Sue the manufactuer of the nails, of course!! :D
 

janichol

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
34
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

:) Sue the manufactuer of the nails, of course!! :) <br />Finger nails? or roofing nails??? :D <br />Why not put the blame where it belongs... with the greedy lawyers. They have ruined health care, product liability, pharmaceuticals.. you name it. If we limited the amount a lawyer could receive from these outlandish suits, maybe they'd think twice about filing them. And counter suits on the lawyer when the cases are thrown out as being frivolous. Had a friend who's son was riding in a Bronco with out a seat belt, driver going too fast and they flipped. He sued Ford and got a settlement, so his son will never have to work again. I think that's the reason I paid more for my Explorer this year. As if it's Ford's fault the driver and passenger were stupid!
 

coupedeville

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 17, 2002
Messages
164
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

I'll be damned if I know why people refer to it as common sense. From what I've been seeing, there's nothing common about sense anymore.<br />People do stupid things, then have to find someone else to blame. <br />Personally, I think it's all driven by money [duh]. Why play the lottery? That's taxed. Do something stupid, hurt yourself, sue everybody you can think of.<br />Did anybody see "60 Minutes" a few weeks back? It was a story on how a huge number a suits are filed in certain sections of Mississippi. The juries that hand out awards are all locals, and they've discovered that they can all get in on the action! Shameful. Absolutely shameful.<br />When the lawyers get through with boating, it will be like what happened to general aviation: Some manfacturers just closed down their lines, and the ones that remained basically had to double their prices to save for the cost of future litigation. A manufacturer can and has been held liable for any defects in it's product, regardless of it's age or the stupid things people might do with it. Beechcraft was repeatedly sued because people would fly their V tailed Bonanza's past the redline speed [VNE-velocity, never exceed] that's clearly marked on the airspeed indicator, and specifically mentioned in the flight manual. Result? The tails would come off, the planes would crash, people would die, Beechcraft would be sued - and lose. And the age of the subject aircraft was irrelevant. Didn't matter if it was a 30 year old aircraft, Beech was held to be responsible.<br />Just wait til they go to work on the boating industry. :eek:
 

SlowlySinking

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
897
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

In William Shakespeare's historical play "Henry VI, Part II," there's a scene where a large group of commoners gather and Richard the Butcher turns to the others, proclaiming: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." :eek: <br /><br />By the way, this forum has a built in censor, and it changed Dic__ to Richard.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

All,<br /><br />You all would be stunned to know how much of the price of a new automobile is tort (litigation) prevention/defense.<br /><br />Sadly, it's higher for the US nameplates because so much more of the US nameplates assets are here in the USA.<br /><br />Offshore nameplates have very few of their total assets in the US. Those offshore assets are untouchable by US courts.
 

janichol

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
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Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

The same for prescription medication.... Buy it here, it cost a fortune. Buy it in Mexico, over the counter with no lawyers involved, cheap. First the lawyers make laws, they they hire themselves to circumvent them.<br />Good point, Coupe... took congress to get Cessna back in business....
 

reida

Recruit
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
1
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

I am a lawyer and none of your comments upset me. However one should avoid making broad statements about any group, lawyers included.<br /><br />As to the William Shakespeare reference in Henry VI, Part II "lets kill all the lawyers" is quoted completely out of context.<br /><br />As to things costing more because of litigation that is usually correct. Airplanes cost more because lawyers brought suits to make them safer. Think about seat belts, shoulder harnesses,Ford Pintos, Corvairs, asbestos, ****** implants, Thalidimide, tobacco, Dalkon shields, thousands of products. If manufacturers were not concerned about product liability there would be all kind of crap in the marketplace.<br /><br />Don't think i'm right? Look at places like India, almost all the countries in Africa and many other third world countries. Think their as safe as we are? Hardly. <br /><br />Lawyers have to prove a theory of liability, they don't recover everytime. The McDonald's case? Check your facts, when you exaggerate you destroy.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

I think we're getting of track here. We are(Were) talking about individual responsibility for ones actions. You can't blame lawyers for your own actions, that may result in harm or death to others or yourself. I'm referring to this part of the statement in the first post:
I just wanted to comment on the lawsuit against Mercury Marine. Whereas<br />propeller guards may help reduce incidents of injury, I fail to see why<br />Mercury Marine is liable. To me, the #1 reason for boating-related injury<br />or death is stupidity on the part of the owner/operator. No mater how many<br />safety devices are installed or protective measures are taken to try and<br />protect boaters, some clever moron will figure out a way to injure or kill<br />him (or her) self, or someone else. Bottom line is that stupid kills. No<br />number of lawsuits will change that fact. For the lawsuit mentioned above,<br />my question to the widower would be, "How did your wife come to fall into<br />the water in the first place?" If it was from a boat's wake, sue the boat<br />owner that caused the wake. If it was from the wife not sitting down, sue<br />the boat manufacturer for not installing seatbelts (I'm being silly). How<br />about suing the lake for causing the widower and his late wife to be boating<br />there in the first place (now I'm being ridiculous...)?<br />
This is where individual responsibility matters and no attorney can prevent things like this from happening. As I stated, I try to keep things that may endanger others to a minimum and hope for the best. So far, so good, as far as I'm concerned. No major catastrophes yet! But you never know and that's just part of living life. Again, just my opinion.
 

FlyBoyMark

Ensign
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
934
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

Sounds like something from one of those gun suits,.....the courts are rejecting most all of them based on this novel theory.....
 

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Boating Law (Warning - this is long and may upset you...)

what?
 
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