Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

[starcraftkid]

I've been knocking around the idea of either converting my Starchief to an open boat or buying one which I've looked at and doing the same.
I love the idea of the cabin but more often than not it gets in my way being 6'6" tall, and I'd like to lighten up the boat a bit and make full use of the space available.

Has anyone stripped out and re-decked a Starchief as an open boat, either a side or center console? Do I go with the forward or rear deck level? (The deck inside the cabin is about 8" lower than the rest of the boat).

Would you do it to a complete and otherwise ready to run boat? I've got a mint clean 70hp that I'd like to use and I looked at one without it's motor on CL that's been listed for almost a year now with no takers by another member here.
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/boa/2472861172.html

I want as bare bones a boat as I can get, just a deck, helm, and motor. I'm hoping I can buy the boat without the trailer for a lot less than the asking price. I looked at the boat some time ago but had to sell another one of my boats before bringing in another project. I have a minty clean running 75hp Johnson that I'd like to use.
Making the boat lighter would also let me tow it with my Ranger, which struggles on the ramp with my Starchief now. I think with a few hundred less pounds or so it may make all the difference.
When I replaced the deck in my original Starchief I realized just how much wood weight is in these. I suppose the cabin and forward seats have to be over 225lbs or so, the rear wall on mine is 3/4" plywood, as is most of the forward seat structure and panels. Not to mention the 400lbs of wet foam I removed from mine. (from the feel of the one on CL I don't think wet foam will be an issue, that boat is super light, I was able to lift the bow and walk the boat around by the tongue, I couldn't do that with mine until I hung my motor. The one on CL is one year older than mine, but looks pretty much the same other than the custom seat boxes. If I hadn't of just redone my deck, I'd probably buy the one on CL and gut mine down as it was in far worse shape when I got it.

One layout that crossed my mind was to put the helm all the way forward at the back of the bow deck, and mounting a glass windshield there. That would leave almost 13 feet of open deck to fish from. No console or anything in the way.
Does a 75hp sound like enough motor for an open 18' boat?

 

[boatnut74]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I removed the cap from my Chieftain to make it easier to restore. It lightened it up ALOT. You could fab up new gunwales or use part of the existing ones. There was about 80 rivets I had to drill out to remove it. As for the floor, I would make it all flat. Making it all open would be really nice with lots of deck space to fish from.

 

[boatnut74]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

They want WAY to much for that starchief without a motor. A 75hp should be enough for a 18' open boat.

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

The only way thats worth near that price is if the trailer was brand, I do mean brand new. Your idea would give you a bunch of space but a Holiday will give you lots of space without all the fuss.

 

[horiconducker]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

We ripped the top off an islander earlier this year and aimed for the exact same result as you have in mind.
Here's the link of the finished product. If you click the picture/video of the holeshot it will take you to the photobucket account that shows the entire project finish to start.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=488772

Good luck with your project!

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

The only way thats worth near that price is if the trailer was brand, I do mean brand new. Your idea would give you a bunch of space but a Holiday will give you lots of space without all the fuss.

I didn't think the price was that bad for a nice solid hull and a super nice trailer. The trailer has new LED lights, new wiring, new winch, new winch strap, new tires and rims, and not a speck of rust. It also fits the boat like a glove. I've sold far lesser trailers for as much as he wants for the boat and trailer. He'd sell the boat separate for $800, but I can't buy a new trailer for less than $2600, and that don't have LED lights, or a two speed winch.

If anyone knows of an 18' hull for less in the Philadelphia or South Jersey area, I'm all ears. I've been looking at have looked at a dozen or more lately that were all junk, full or popped rivets, patches, dents, and other various issues. Not to mention rusted or old painted trailers that may or may not make it home.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I removed the cap from my Chieftain to make it easier to restore. It lightened it up ALOT. You could fab up new gunwales or use part of the existing ones. There was about 80 rivets I had to drill out to remove it. As for the floor, I would make it all flat. Making it all open would be really nice with lots of deck space to fish from.

I'm not sure why I'd have to fab up new gunwales? I had the top off my Starchief and it was only screwed on from the underside of the gunwales, much the same as the windshields are attached. With the rear wall and top off, I was left with two levels of deck, the part inside the cabin is much lower. I was thinking that I could set that as the height of the entire deck?

The hull appears different from the Holiday, the bow deck looks shorter on the Starchief. I've got about 33" from the bow top to what would become the dash board with the top off. The Holiday looks to have a much longer front bow area.

I think I can fit a helm up where the cabin windshield is. if I put a pair of seats there and make the rest of the boat a flat deck, I have all that room to fish off of. The only space wasted then will be the huge splashwell.
I'm not at all concerned about a few screw holes, they can be filled with epoxy. The

My ideal boat would be a 1967 Sportsman Center Console but I've yet to even see one of those up close. I also don't want a saltwater run boat, Its got to be corrosion and dent free. I also want the older style hull, before they began to lose the lapstrake style and before they boxed in the rear stern corners.

 

[boatnut74]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

My cabin was attatched with solid rivets. The easiest way to seperate it was take the complete cap off. I thought they would be similiar.

 

[slowleak]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Something that I had thought about on those boats is why not leave the cabin but remove the rear cabin wall and level the deck to the cabin floor level? You could drive from inside, still have sun shade and the cabin could be used like a bimini top. You could even use the top of the cabin for storage, things like coolers and extra rods could ride on top.
I looked at that same Starchief back in the spring, I can't believe it's still for sale. If I could have come up with the cash it would have been mine.
The boat is pretty clean and don't look like it's had a hard life. I looked at about a dozen of those and every other one was sitting out in some back yard uncovered and all rotten. That thing has been cared for it's whole life. The transom is rock solid and the hull isn't all banged up. It needs paint but that's a given on a boat that old.
I also saw it advertised over at fiberglassics.
The hull on those isn't the same as a Holiday, I've looked at and measured both, the fore deck is shorter on the Starchief, meaning that if you put the helm up front, your seating position will be several feet further forward than if it were a Holiday. Myself, I sort of like that idea but if you leave the cabin and move the controls forward, you will have to drive from behind a plexiglass windshield which can't have a wiper installed. The right answer is probably to either change out the windshield someone with glass or to leave the controls outside the cabin.
Those are also very light boats, that trailer is probably overkill. I'd rather see a boat that light on a much lower bunk trailer. It would greatly lower the amount of weight you have to tow. That trailer probably weighs nearly as much as the boat itself.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I thought about leaving the cabin on and doing just that, but at 6' 2" tall the cabin would just get in the way.
I don't think rivets would work on the Starchief, unless they used pop rivets? The bottom edge of the cabin is tubular with no way to back up the rivet. They used self tapping screws up from below into the bottom edge of the cabin rail. If I remove the cabin and the rear railings the gunwales will only show a few dozen holes where they were mounted. The gunwales even already have the rubber inner rub rail as if it could have been built with or without a cabin. The hardest part of removing the cabin is removing the dash and controls. The rest looks like it'll come right off.

I'm really curious as to what the hull looks like under the deck, is the step in the floor done with wood or aluminum? The Holiday looks deeper than the Starchief, I'm guessing that may be because of the difference in rear deck height off the keel?

I seriously also thought about hiding the tanks under the deck if I had to keep it at the rear deck's factory height. Right now that boat has it's tanks in custom boxes under the seats, the seats sit atop of those boxes which also give some storage space beneath the seats. I have a pair of pedestal seats that would work well though but I'd still have to put them high atop a step up in the deck so my feet don't hang from the seat. Right now the seating area floor is raised about 12" off the deck so you can see over the dash and cabin. Stepping down to the left from the drivers position is tough in that if you miss the step you can fall pretty easily in rough water.
On mine now, I simply have a step for the drivers seat but the left seat is at normal height. The passenger in that seat can't see forward.
I sort of like the way this one is set up, I may copy or remake those seat boxes for mine, or just ad some fresh paint and move them to my original boat.
My only concern is weight, being that they're made of 3/4" plywood, I don't suppose their light. Not to mention the two 25+ gallon fuel tanks which they house.
I like the idea of the fuel tanks being midship like that but don't like the idea of not being able to remove them easily for cleaning. I was thinking of making a trap door in the middle which could hold several portable tanks or one big one which could be carried on and off the boat to be filled.
Right now that boat has a VRO motor on it, so the tanks are without oil mixed fuel, I'd most likely run premix, which can be a hassle with an onboard tank if you have to fuel up on the water and guess the amount of oil to add.

 

[mfgniagara]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Wow! I can't believe that boat is still for sale. I looked at that boat last fall, the owner didn't want to sell it then. I bought an MFG off him that he had listed.
I'm not sure on the price, but a while back a neighbor of mine had a well weathered and rotted Starchief that he wanted gone, he listed it for months on CL and in the free papers with no takers at $1200, he finally cut it up for scrap. He got $590 for the hull, put the interior bits out for the trash, and sold the single axle Sea Lion roller trailer for $900 a few weeks later. He later sold the motor for $300 to a guy that needed a rebuildable 4 cylinder. So price wise I don't think $1500 is all that bad, especially for a boat that is complete, and no doubt usable as it sits.
The day I was there, he had a super clean looking Evinrude 110 running on a stand that he said he was putting on that boat. He had another older V4 hanging there that had just come off it. I tried to buy the old motor but he said he had another home planned for it.
There's been a lot of boats junked lately, aluminum is back up and many are worth more in scrap than whole I guess. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that Starchief go to scrap. He'll no doubt get his money out of it in pieces. That trailer would bring $750 or more here, the hull would be close to $500 in scrap, and things like fuel tanks, steering, glass, and trim would no doubt sell on either CL or eBay. I sold a pair of used 15 gallon poly tanks last month here for $180 and a used helm and cable from a trihull I scrapped out for $80.
I'm not in the business of junking boats but I often pick up free or cheap boats for parts, either to sell or use. When it's an aluminum boat, it's a win win deal all around, there's really no waste.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I'm hoping the seller don't junk that one before I get the money together. To be honest, it's the only complete one I've found and the only one that's not completely trashed. I'm hoping to get the cash this weekend and get down there.
I hate to see any boat junked or scrapped for metal value but lately it seems many have no choice. I took a load of aluminum from a camper I junked for it's frame and they were paying $.78 per pound so I'd guess that a Starchief would bring in the $500 range all stripped down. I figure that if the hull weighs in at 900lbs, after you pull out the wood and interior your most likely in the 600lb range give or take. The junk yard here shreds everything right away, there's never any change of salvaging a boat from the shredder. They normally grab it right off the trailer with the grapple.

I like the idea of leaving the cabin but both visibility and anchoring issues would still make me toss the roof. The fully open boat with a plain old Bimini top is most likely the best deal. I want to keep it simple and light.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Got $700, maybe less for 18 ft. bowrider with 85 hp. TLC boat, but you want to make a CC. Over in PA. http://allentown.craigslist.org/boa/2462589897.html

I wish that guy in Vineland would clean up all the ads for the Starchief.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I saw that but it's 120 plus miles away and if the 18' bow rider hull is like the 16' SS, it'll need gunwale fabrication work if I toss the two side consoles and front bunks. My neighbor has an SS that he made into a center console and he had to fab up wood caps to fill in the gunwales around the sides and front. The Starchief hull is finished inside and out. Of course it may also be only a feature found on older boats?
I usually shy away from driving long distances without pics too. If it were closer to Philly or Southern NJ I'd make the trip to see it. I drove 100 miles into PA last fall to look at what supposedly was a complete boat in good shape. What I found was one with a ton of salt corrosion and dents all over. The thing had been left in the water for years in saltwater, the motor, lower hull, and all trim were heavily pitted, the deck was collapsed, the transom bowed outward from the wood being rotted, and the rear cabin wall had all but fallen in. The guy described it as being fresh water run and a clean vintage boat. It was junk, plain and simple. Another one I looked at was already converted to a center console, that one a 22' hull, but the guy used 3/4" plywood for the deck, then he ran 5/4 P/T deck boards over top of that, and made the console out of wood and body filler. It weighed more than my truck. To top it all off, the bow had been hammered out with a ball peen hammer, it looked like the right from had been slammed into with a bus and hand hammered out. Many others were just as bad, either corroded, missing many rivets and cracked all over, or dented or damaged structurally in some way. At least the one in Vineland is straight and not abused. I know I can sand and paint that and it'll look good again. If I wanted to, I suppose I could just hang a motor and go fishing with it the way it is. I was able to stand on the lower unit and transom showed no deflection at all and the deck, even where the seller said it was a little soft, didn't budge under my weight. I'm not after a show piece but I want a solid hull to start with. To date, it's the best one I've looked at. I plan to take a ride early next week to see if I can make a deal on it, unless something a lot nicer turns up soon.

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Good luck in your search. Prices in your area seem on the high side tho but if time is on your side you'll stumble onto a good deal eventually. It really amazes me to see some of the hodge podge fixes some owners do to their boats.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I see what you're saying. Last one I was looking at I asked the seller for more pics and got them. He wanted too much dinero and it was about 250 miles one way. I figure if they don't want to send more pics, they don't want to sell. Prices usually start to drop in the fall and the best buys are during the winter - If you aren't in a hurry.

 

[road kill]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

I was in that area last weekend looking at another boat, there was an aluminum Starcraft like your looking at there for sale but with no trailer, no motor, no seats, but otherwise complete. There is a trailer but its rusted beyond use and is shoved into the woods. The boat is uncovered and needs all it's wood replaced. He wants $850 for it and won't budge. I was looking for a boat to convert for crabbing and have a motor and trailer but am really after a larger trihull or flat bottom. The one I saw had the helm laying on the deck where it had fallen off the rotted cabin wall, the deck was almost gone, there was chewed white foam all over the boat and lots of bees.
It wasn't dented up but it was pretty much just the bare hull there with a load of rotten wood bits laying in the hull. The guy said he planned to scrap it if it don't sell but there was a basket ball sized hornets nest hanging in the cabin keeping it from being junked for the time being.
When you figure that aluminum would probably make that a $400 or better boat at the scrap yard these days, maybe even more, its not hard to figure it at $850 if the hull is nice. You certainly can't buy anything new like that these days for that kind of money. Plus, when you figure a roller trailer new for a boat like that these days is over $4,000 brand new, another grand for the trailer is a pretty fair price. So at $1500, that boat there looks like he's selling the trailer for what it's worth and only really asking scrap value for the hull when you break it down. Maybe he would sell it faster just scrapping the hull and selling the trailer, he may come out on top in the end. I sold a 2800lb Load Rite trailer for $1250 cash last week, and it didn't have LED lights, a new winch, or new tires. It was just a good used 1985 model trailer. I listed it at $1499, and had four calls in an hour after ad showed up.
While I rarely put much value on the trailer when I buy a boat as most of the time I change the trailer anyhow, you have to figure its true value if it's in nice condition.

If that boat your looking at has that nice of a trailer, plus is in good solid condition I feel that price is pretty much dead on if not low, regardless of the current economy and regardless of how much any of us would like to buy any boat for cheap.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Off Topic. I read CL ads and see sellers saying that the scrap value is more than they are asking and the trailer is worth more than the deal. So, my question is why are they selling and not just scrapping the boat and sell the trailer if it is all so valuable? Has anyone scrapped a tinny? How much work is involved to sell it for top scrap dollar? I think a lot, otherwise the scrap value plummets if it's not "clean" aluminum.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

Just to be certain, I called around to some scrap yards again, and more than one told me that they would pay $.92 per pound for any aluminum boat that has been gutted of it's wood, glass, and fuel tanks. The price varied only a few cents between yards. They will even take the fuel tanks if they're aluminum but they have to be cut in half and out of the boat. If the Starchief weighs in at 900 lbs new as a bare hull as advertised, then I can certainly see it weighing in at around 600 to 650lbs gutted, maybe even more. There's not a lot of wood in that boat, the original deck is only 1/2" plywood, the rear cabin wall is 3/4" ply, the rest is all foam and a couple of cushions plus the transom panel. The original seat was not much more than a jump seat on an aluminum bracket so any added modern seats aren't in that equation. At 650 lbs, that makes the hull worth nearly $600 in just scrap. I'm actually amazed that we don't have to lock our boats to trees to keep them from the scrap thieves lately.

I also called the seller last night to make sure he's going to be around one night next week.
IN our conversation he offered me the motor that's on the boat for another $1200, which is a nice running 1989 Evinrude 110hp with a fresh lower unit, new prop, and newer power head that looks just installed. It was a freshwater motor from PA that a former owner had redone, but no power tilt and trim. He'd got a brand new tilt and trim unit for it but wants $350 for it. He also said he'd entertain a trade for a smaller motor, something in the 50 to 75hp range from OMC which he has a use for. I at first wasn't interested but with the motor, it's a ready to run boat as is sits. I have no doubt he'd have no trouble getting $1200 for that motor, or more if he puts the t/t unit on it. It a VRO motor still running straight gas too. He found a deal on a 4 stroke that better matches his other boat so he offered the Evinrude to me. I am thinking about maybe working a trade for the 75hp motor I have here if we can work out a deal, even if its my motor and some cash for his motor. I was sort of thinking that the 100 degree weather lately has a lot to do with him not looking forward to removing the motor right now as well. I offered him $2500 for the whole package and I think that might work for the whole package. If I do that, I'll keep this boat together and remove the top off my other Starchief instead. If I can make my 75hp part of the deal I may get it for even a bit less.

Does the deal sound better at $2500 with the motor? He did say he won't sell the motor separate, if the motor comes off, it's not for sale, which is why I don't think he's too enthused to wrench on the boat and remove the motor in this hot weather.

road kill - I think I looked at that boat you saw, if you look closely, the hull has cracks all along the spray rails and several of the strakes. Its had a hard life. I tried to buy some pieces off it when I was redoing my boat but there's not much that's any good.

I certainly have to agree, some of the rigs I've seen on a few boats is just amazing. I can't imagine what some people think 'works'. There are a few things that do not EVER belong on a boat.
- Roofing tar or undercoating is a good example, Romex cable or old extension cords for wiring is another, and concrete of any type. (I looked at one boat a few years ago on which someone had used concrete floor leveler to smooth out the piece work plywood deck, they added about 200 lbs to the boat not counting the wood).

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Cabin removal on Starchief 18'?

$2500 for a perfectly straight and usable hull, super nice trailer, and a running Evinrude 110? That's a very fair deal. Think about how much further ahead you'd be starting out for not that much more money. You'd easily spend that and more getting a different project up to that point.