Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

[102020]

Hey all,

Ok, so I have an 18' Coleman, made of kevlar plastic (very durable). I already have a trolling motor and mount setup, which works great...there is 1 tiny problem though (which I'll get to). Now I also just picked up a 4HP Evinrude 4006e (1974 I think?). I have custom fabricated a bracket so it mounts up to the back of my canoe (which is non-sport, aka, pointed on both ends). That's all fine and dandy so far.

Now when I have myself and another in the canoe, the canoe has the perfect trim. What I'm after is a few answers to some questions. I have a 6 Gallon gas tank and a deep cycle that probably weight 60-80lbs (I can run the trolling motor 12hours continuous).

1. When I'm solo, what would be my best weight distribution? It would be easier to have the batter up from probably than extend the fuel line all the way to the front?
2. Can a motor have enough trim to plain the canoe out when solo or is that a bad idea? My bracket is adjustable upto 30 degrees (plus the motor has adjustment)
3. On a real boat, you can get trim boards, anything similar for a canoe? Or would it be worth me fabbing something?
4. On the motor I just got, 24:1 is the right mixture? so I 6 gallon tank should take about 32oz (950ml) of oil?
5. Does an incorrect fuel/oil mixture affect performance? I noticed after MY mix (after buying) that I wasn't getting the same power, and I know it's 90/90 compression, new plugs and wires. I believe I did 50:1 or 75:1 (what was on the bottle), but found out through these forums it should have WAY more oil in it. Can anyone verify this one?
6. Anyone know a good place to get hydrofoil outriggers (ama)? just the pontoon, not the whole device.

I'll have to take some pictures when it's daylight so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[mudslinging79]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

i think your raito would be 50-1 on the older johnson/evenrude, may wanna check that first. i spent the 5 bucks for the mix bottle with the charts on the side, takes care of the guess work. just fill with oil to the ratio for how many gallons, then pour it in the tank. as for getting on plane, how stable is the canoe from side to side roll???

 

[JB]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

50:1 is the correct mix for a 1974 lightwin.

 

[102020]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

i think your raito would be 50-1 on the older johnson/evenrude, may wanna check that first. i spent the 5 bucks for the mix bottle with the charts on the side, takes care of the guess work. just fill with oil to the ratio for how many gallons, then pour it in the tank. as for getting on plane, how stable is the canoe from side to side roll???

Well I've tested the motor out, and it looks stable-This canoe is a little wider, I mean, I stand up in it while fishing, that's how stable it is, I was planning on adding outriggers(ama's) to increase the stability even more, so it's not a terrible issue.

I guess the problem is that my bow may be too heavy with the battery AND gas tank in the 1/4 rear half of the canoe?

 

[robert graham]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

I run a 17' aluminum canoe with a 3HP motor and without a passenger up front for better weight distribution, I use about a 50lb. sand bag in the bow to help with the trim, have used rocks, cement blocks, etc. but those might not work with your plastic/kevlar construction. You can also use a tiller extension and move your seat forward a foot or so. Good Luck!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

LOL. this makes me think of the next logical question.
how big of an engine does a canoe need in order to tow a skier?

 

[mudslinging79]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

you only have to get the shier up to about 20 mph, then the shier can plain on the water, its been done on mythbusters with a sculling team. if you do do it, take footage, i wanna see that!!!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

downsize your gas tank to 3 gallons, or don't fill it all the way.
Keep all weight low and centered.
Is that a trolling motor battery at 60 # or a car battery? downsize.
I hope you'er not carrying both motors at the same time!

Too much weight forward can cause a canoe to lose its recovery when it dips into a wave (rapids, wake) BTDT. Also too much weight forward can make it veer dangerously, and roll.

 

[102020]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

So if my math is right, I was running about 32:1 then, does that cause a performance drop? I just built my motor stand today, so I'll be testing it out tomorrow and get to the bottom of this. I've got myself some quick start to throw in the carb neck to see if that helps, and choke out always stalls out my motor. I do know there is a tiny air leak in the gas gauge on the gas tank, that may be a cause of dropped performance too. I'll go through all the steps that I've found on other threads here and post back.

I did see that same episode of mythbusters, and I've seen some other 4HP canoes fly pretty quick (about 20mph avg.). I've got a body board I'll try that out on once I get this thing fully working to par. I think I'm getting like 5mph right now, but didnt remember to turn my gps on last time i was out (I'm only on trial #4).

As per the double motors...Yes, I do carry both, but only when I'm out fishing, other than that, it's 1 or the 2 depending on the body of water I'm on and the intention of my going out. The trolling motor weighs less than 10lbs, so I don't think that would be an issue (30lbs thrust), but yea, that battery is the 700CCA deep cycle (about $150 battery) and weighs a good 60ish lbs, as I do ALOT of canoe fishing and camping, so I needed something that would last 2-3 days on a single charge. I would like to get the 3 gallon gas tank though and place that behind the rear seat-right now it sits 1/4 way from the bank (as far up as I could without getting in the way of my feet). I've been out 4 times thus far with the motor and I'm only at 1/2 tank, so I can definitely reduce there. So I guess I'll extend my battery cable (AGAIN) and put it up front.

Another question, I know there are some styrafoam corners in the front/rear, and these are so the boat doesn't fully sink if capsized/floaded, if I was to put outriggers (ama) on both sides, could I remove those safely and hide my battery at the very front? I definitely have enough trim play both directions to adjust for any condition aside from just me (thus my original question).

As per the recovery time, I did notice that when I had all the weight in the back, my initial wake with a combination of some of the waves would let water in by the stern of the canoe. I was solo at the time, and all weight WAS in the back, so I can understand this, especially since I shifted myself to the front and it made a huge difference. So this really comes down to weight because the boat is so light? Is this the same concept as a motorcycle? Lightweight with smaller engine = FUN?

 

[102020]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

Here is how it runs right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k73DiuWvj5A

This is how it should run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOG48nWcN0

If you play the 2 at the same time, you'll hear what I mean, mine at full power sounds like the other 1 at low.

Here are a few pictures of the canoe by itself (this was before the motor)

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

don't remove the floatation. too dangerous. And putting the battery too far forward is dangerous--too much weight in an area where there isn't enough hull flat on the water to recover from a dip.

Have you tried this to trim the canoe? When I canoe solo, I always sit in the front seat facing backwards, if that makes sense. Flattens the canoe right out. Some solo paddlers kneel in the middle for white water.

I really think that a gas tank, OB, car battery and trolling motor is too much stuff in a canoe. is it possible to leave some of it ashore when you get to your destination? That way, too, if you roll with one rig, you have the other left out dry to get you home.

 

[102020]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

Well flipping the canoe the other way around wouldn't work, only for the reason I've got the motor mounts already installed on the rear. I think maybe if I put the battery under the front seat then, maybe, just maybe that'll be the right balance? I see your point with putting in the absolute front, as I do want to be safe out there.

I'm also thinking this won't be a huge issue once I install some ama's on there, but I need something for 'now', not 'down the road'.

Ok, so to recap, with 2 people in the canoe sitting in the regular positions, the battery and gas tank go right in the middle where the supporting cross bar is, that works perfect. This puts my weight distribution like so:

Front Middle Rear
120lbs 75lbs 160lbs

Total of 355lbs, 1/2 of the max weight rating.

And then I guess this should work then when solo:
Put the battery at the front seat (this would emulate the weight of a child), and keep the gas tank in the middle? It's nice because I have the 2 power sources, so I can really shift them anywhere.

I only weight 130lbs, so an extra 30lbs for the motor puts the back at around 160lbs. Then the gas tank, not sure on the weight, but I'd say it's about 15lbs, which I can keep in the middle. Lastly, the deep cycle battery, which runs about 60lbs, which could go in the front. So total weight with a single person is about 235lbs evenly distributed. I checked the weight rating on the canoe, and she can handle up to 600lbs, though I'd never dare put that much weight on her.

Front Middle Rear
60lbs 15lbs 160lbs

Total of 235lbs, 1/3 of the weight rating.

+trim adjustments, that should be ok? As I said, depends on the outing, and this is the only situation for weight distribution I haven't figured out yet.

 

[mudslinging79]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

dont forget the gas tank will get lighter as you use the gas...

 

[102020]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

SO! Putting the battery right in front of the front seat (when it's just me) works perfectly! Now I've got the trim levels figured out, my next goal is to figure out the best height for the motor. I know when mounting to a regular boat transom, the...I'm not sure what it's called (the flat part right above the prop) should be level with the bottom of the transom (and distance from behind the boat + max speed = heigher mounting). Now since this is a canoe, it's next to impossible to follow this rule since the boat doesn't cut the water in the same fashion. Plus since it's a short shaft, the exhaust ports get submerged when running if I put the motor as far down as possible.

Has anyone played with their motor height on a non flat back canoe before? I've marked the water level for when the motor is running, so I think I've got a pretty good idea, but any tips are great!

 

[mudslinging79]

Re: Canoe + Motor + Weight Distribution

make sure the exhaust is above the water, and the water intake is below water. i would try the flat avove the prop islevel or slightly below the bottom of the canoe at the lowest point in the water, probably would be the middle of the canoe. that should get you in the ballpark. bear in mind that the thrust of your motor may cause the front of the canoe to rise, putting the motor a little lower in the water, and your rig ceems to rise up on both ends, so you should be set