Carbon fiber keel guard

[robertw007]

I recently acquired a 1969 whaler nauset and I'll be removing the gel coat to refinish the hull and deck.
I'll be using 2 coats of total boat epoxy resin on the original bare glass, followed by 2 coats of total boat barrier primer. hull and deck. Followed by 3 coats of wet edge, also hull and deck, due to color scheme I want for the hull. Whaler blue for entire hull, Kingston gray for interior, with some deck areas being whaler blue with a grip/texture material I already have.
For the hull I'll be adding some majik catalyst hardener in the final coat to give a nice strong finish.

My question is this.
Has anyone ever used resin to apply carbon fiber fabric to the keel to protect from beaching and such?
I really like the idea, but unsure exactly what layer to put it in. I think it'd be cool for it to be visible.
I do realize keel guard sells a $200 piece you can put on afterwards, but buying the carbon fiber is way cheaper and I'm already applying resin. Figured I could save a chunk doing it that way.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

This sounds interesting. I want pics as you go please.

 

[robertw007]

This sounds interesting. I want pics as you go please.

It will be interesting for me as well, I have zero experience with fiberglass but I'm a quick study.

If anyone has any suggestions or corrections to my plan, they're welcome

 

[kd4pbs]

I don't believe epoxy impregnated carbon fiber would hold up very well to abrasion - at least any more than fiberglass when impregnated with epoxy.
I'd think you would want something metal, rubber, or plastic.
Edit: Sorry! Nevermind - I think you're talking about impact resistance, not something one would use when intentionally beaching.

 

[robertw007]

I don't believe epoxy impregnated carbon fiber would hold up very well to abrasion - at least any more than fiberglass when impregnated with epoxy.
I'd think you would want something metal, rubber, or plastic.
Edit: Sorry! Nevermind - I think you're talking about impact resistance, not something one would use when intentionally beaching.

I was actually thinking both.. I got a lil bit of keel damage weekend before last at the river, a lot of shallow areas with hard stone bottom. Thought it would protect against that and intentionally beaching, better than fiberglass alone.
Maybe kevlar would be a better idea?

Prior to applying new fiberglass patches to existing glass, do I need a primer to make it stick?
I planned on using 1708 with mat on one side

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would finish the fiberglass and gel, and use a proven keel guard (plasticized PVC held on with 3M VHB tape after you prep the carp out of the gel)

you need to mechanically sand with 40 grit to give the surface tooth for it to stick.

 

[robertw007]

I would finish the fiberglass and gel, and use a proven keel guard (plasticized PVC held on with 3M VHB tape after you prep the carp out of the gel)

you need to mechanically sand with 40 grit to give the surface tooth for it to stick.

I may end up going with keel guard, but it's gonna jack up the look I want. Be cool if they would customize a color for you.
The biggest reason I don't want to use gel is because I can't find anybody that sells whaler blue gel. I could try to mix and make it.. But that sounds like a bigger task added to the big task I have before me.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

I was actually thinking both.. I got a lil bit of keel damage weekend before last at the river, a lot of shallow areas with hard stone bottom. Thought it would protect against that and intentionally beaching, better than fiberglass alone.
Maybe kevlar would be a better idea?

I imagine it would be similar to the gel. It would be a hard surface, so would get beat up just as bad.

Prior to applying new fiberglass patches to existing glass, do I need a primer to make it stick?
I planned on using 1708 with mat on one side

No to the primer, you use the same polyester resin that it was made with. Grind it well with some 40 grit, clean it, and glass it.

Because you intended that much work, I had assumed you would have extensive experience. Since you don't I can't recommend doing what you had planned with stripping all the gel off. A good epoxy bottom paint and keel guard will give plenty of protection.

I'm actually prepping one for a Hamby now. Pictures aren't uploading today though.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

The biggest reason I don't want to use gel is because I can't find anybody that sells whaler blue gel.

Spectrum is who we use for up to a gallon size. Be prepared for a huge hazardous shipping cost though.

We actually ordered a 5 gallon of Whaler a while back. We get those from composites one, but I think the gel manufacturer is polynt composites.

 

[robertw007]

I imagine it would be similar to the gel. It would be a hard surface, so would get beat up just as bad.

No to the primer, you use the same polyester resin that it was made with. Grind it well with some 40 grit, clean it, and glass it.

Because you intended that much work, I had assumed you would have extensive experience. Since you don't I can't recommend doing what you had planned with stripping all the gel off. A good epoxy bottom paint and keel guard will give plenty of protection.

I'm actually prepping one for a Hamby now. Pictures aren't uploading today though.

Just a high achiever
Looking forward to the pics when The interwebs decide to play along!
I've been all over this site and the whalers fb group looking and learning.
I'm positive once I patch a spot and have to grind it off a time or two, I'll be a pro. Kidding.. but I'm sure I can make it look good.
I like this boat too much to not do it justice.

 

[robertw007]

Spectrum is who we use for up to a gallon size. Be prepared for a huge hazardous shipping cost though.

We actually ordered a 5 gallon of Whaler a while back. We get those from composites one, but I think the gel manufacturer is polynt composites.

Another thing I've read about and still on it.. Is, gel sticking to epoxy resin.

Is a lowly diy guy like myself able to order from those vendors?

If I could get the whaler blue gel, and change my materials up...
Could I go poly resin with my patches, then what primer? The same epoxy primer? Will I get cracks and bubbles using gel on top of total boat epoxy primer?

Originally I wanted to use interlux perfection 2 part poly, but they didn't sell the color I wanted.
I'm doing this entirely diy style.. I've got grinders and sanders, but application of product would be with foam roller and high quality brush, tip and roll.
I'm building a gantry like I saw in a post on the hull truth to flip the boat myself.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/1087646-1969-boston-whaler-nauset-re-build-restomod-printerfriendly.html

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

Another thing I've read about and still on it.. Is, gel sticking to epoxy resin.

Gel over the old gel.

Is a lowly diy guy like myself able to order from those vendors?

Spectrum I think so, not sure about composites or polynt. I just work in a shop, I don't order stuff.

If I could get the whaler blue gel, and change my materials up...
Could I go poly resin with my patches, then what primer? The same epoxy primer? Will I get cracks and bubbles using gel on top of total boat epoxy primer?

There's no primer for gel, it goes directly onto the glass.

Originally I wanted to use interlux perfection 2 part poly, but they didn't sell the color I wanted.
I'm doing this entirely diy style.. I've got grinders and sanders, but application of product would be with foam roller and high quality brush, tip and roll.

That depends on the kind of finish you want. A brush or roller is going to be pretty rough. We brush stuff all the time, but I've never used a roller on it. My concern with the roller would be getting it thick.

Gel needs to be thick to cure well. It's anaerobic, meaning it cures in the absence of oxygen. So a thick gel will have a gummy outer layer, and be cured underneath. There are wax additives that rise to the surface during cure to give a barrier, as well as other products/methods to achieve that.

To put an epoxy finish or anti foul over, it will need to be sanded smooth with a heavy grit. For this, I would recommend spraying the gel. It's the best way to get a good, uniform build that will require less sanding than a brush or roller.

Something else to note, I have a lot of experience, but will only a small variety of materials. There are lots of different resin and gel mixes and additives that I've never used. Scott has way more experience than me.

 

[Scott Danforth]

FGCI in St Pete Florida has Whaler Blue on the shelf

Quarts and Gallon

FGCI Gelcoat Kit for Fiberglass Boat Building, Repair, and Patching - FGCI

FGCI Marine Grade Gelcoat is the go to choice for Boat Building, Repair, and Patching. This MACT Compliant gelcoat comes in various kits and colors.

fgci.com

 

[robertw007]

Gel over the old gel.

Spectrum I think so, not sure about composites or polynt. I just work in a shop, I don't order stuff.

There's no primer for gel, it goes directly onto the glass.

That depends on the kind of finish you want. A brush or roller is going to be pretty rough. We brush stuff all the time, but I've never used a roller on it. My concern with the roller would be getting it thick.

Gel needs to be thick to cure well. It's anaerobic, meaning it cures in the absence of oxygen. So a thick gel will have a gummy outer layer, and be cured underneath. There are wax additives that rise to the surface during cure to give a barrier, as well as other products/methods to achieve that.

To put an epoxy finish or anti foul over, it will need to be sanded smooth with a heavy grit. For this, I would recommend spraying the gel. It's the best way to get a good, uniform build that will require less sanding than a brush or roller.

Something else to note, I have a lot of experience, but will only a small variety of materials. There are lots of different resin and gel mixes and additives that I've never used. Scott has way more experience than me.

FGCI in St Pete Florida has Whaler Blue on the shelf

Quarts and Gallon

FGCI Gelcoat Kit for Fiberglass Boat Building, Repair, and Patching - FGCI

FGCI Marine Grade Gelcoat is the go to choice for Boat Building, Repair, and Patching. This MACT Compliant gelcoat comes in various kits and colors.

fgci.com

Looks like I was over complicating it a bit much. I appreciate you guys.

Any particular wax recommended for the final coat?

South GA weather now a days runs around 90⁰ average this time a year. I'll be hanging some tarps on a metal carport entry/exit to get this done, only got 2 walls.
Think 1.25% mekp might be about right?

 

[robertw007]

FGCI in St Pete Florida has Whaler Blue on the shelf

Quarts and Gallon

FGCI Gelcoat Kit for Fiberglass Boat Building, Repair, and Patching - FGCI

FGCI Marine Grade Gelcoat is the go to choice for Boat Building, Repair, and Patching. This MACT Compliant gelcoat comes in various kits and colors.

fgci.com

Grabbing everything from these guys.

They're out of stock on polyester resin kits, will isophthalic polyester resin be fine for what I'm doing?

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

We use patchaid in our gel. Sprayed all at once, no wait time between coats. Scott uses Duratec, I never have. What does FGCI have?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Grabbing everything from these guys.

They're out of stock on polyester resin kits, will isophthalic polyester resin be fine for what I'm doing?

Call them, they mix the colors in the store

 

[cyclops222]

Or stop beaching on the rocks ?? Been doing that for 70 years. No damage to glass or aluminum.

 

[Scott Danforth]

What does FGCI have?

They have duratec

 

[robertw007]

Or stop beaching on the rocks ?? Been doing that for 70 years. No damage to glass or aluminum.

That's a great idea!