Chances of getting lost

sonny_k9

Cadet
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
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10
I've always wondered how far a newbie boater can venture out into open water before chances of being lost on open water become a reality. Are maps and compasses easy to grasp for people starting out into the sport? <br /><br />Has anyone here ever have that fear where they didn't know where exactly they were?
 

arks

Lieutenant Commander
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Nov 7, 2002
Messages
1,936
Re: Chances of getting lost

Open water can quickly confuse a novice. The land masses do not look the same from a distance. Maps (they're called charts) and compasses are helpful but unless you understand the symbols they too can be frustrating.<br />The bottom line: it is a mistake to launch a boat without the proper training and knowledge. Even experienced mariners can get lost from time to time. It's their experience that brings 'em home in one piece.<br />To answer the last part, yes I have experienced a situation where I couldn't identify the surroundings. My experience and training got me safely home.
 

cuzner

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
771
Re: Chances of getting lost

Hey sonny, there is a good chance a seasoned boater can get lost if not familiar with the area.Best suggestion would be to buy a gps and learn to use it . If money is an issue( should be able to buy a base gps for well under 100$)make sure you have a compass at bare minimum. your first couple of times out pick out a couple of landmarks that you won't mistake for anything else... such as water towers or tall buildings. the shoreline looks the same from a mile out so don't use tree's or houses.other than that just pay attention to the shore when you are moving, and remember you are always moving when not at anchor..If your in a large body of water (ocean)never venture far from shore unless you have a working vhf, and know how to use it,If you plan doing much boating buy a gps, have a compass for backup and a vhf radio.<br /><br /> Jim
 

KCook

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,624
Re: Chances of getting lost

Or just not go so far out!<br /><br />Shore hugger Kelly
 

Mark42

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Oct 8, 2003
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Re: Chances of getting lost

Sonny_k9,<br /><br />I starting boating last year. Took a boating course by the United States Power Squadron. Look them up on the net and find a class to attend. <br /><br />I stick mostly to the bay area of NY. I would not cast off without my charts and safty equipment as well as telling someone my float plan in case I'm late or a no-show. From a short distance, the coast all looks the same. A little further and you can't see anything. Don't head out to open water without your communications, charts, and experience. And don't do it alone.<br /><br />Mark
 

Solittle

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Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Chances of getting lost

Well one could look to Christopher Columbus for a clue - he had no coastal charts, no GPS and no VHF radio. What he did have was experience.<br /><br />All the above advice is right on the money. You will gain experience with short trips and will learn your own limits. You will find those limits expanding with each hour of the passage of water under your hull. Have fun and be responsible (that may sound dumb and trite but that is where most get into big trouble).<br /><br />In over 30 years of boating I have never been completely lost. To close friends I will admit that I have missed a channel or two by a couple of miles and turned around at least once (psst - don't tell anyone).
 

swist

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
678
Re: Chances of getting lost

Not knowing where you are CLOSE to shore is actually worse than farther away. There are more things to run into, and possibly less time to react, depending on wind/tides/currents.
 

P.V.

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
452
Re: Chances of getting lost

Sonny... may I sugest you take a few weekend cruises around the "Chesapeak Bay" That would seem to me to be much more enjoyable than "bouncing" along in the deep blue swells of the ocean. We have Puget Sound up here in the Pac NW and it is quite similar. Can get rough but plenty of sites and sounds to see and hide if need be! You'll meet lots of fellow cruisers and then perhaps you can plan a little trip down the inter-coastal with someone else. You'll get your "sea-legs" fairly soon and avoid most of the pitfalls that "novice/rookie" boaters find themselves in....
 

llfish

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
695
Re: Chances of getting lost

Coast Guard or power squadron courses are a great place to start. You will be surprised at the number of veterans boaters that you will meet. All taking refresher courses. Hook up with one that has been out on the open water and take them along until you become seasoned.<br /><br />I guess you would say we were lost because we were caught out in the fog at the mouth to the Columbia River. Thank God for the Coast Guard that night. They baby sat about 16 boats that night. Never been back out except for charters.
 

springhead

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
184
Re: Chances of getting lost

sonny, these boaters are all correct, one other thing to look at before you venture out into the Atlantic, check the seas they can get rough out there,i fish in the Atlantic now and check the heights of the seas everytime i go out, good luck and have fun
 

Crazy

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Messages
76
Re: Chances of getting lost

I was with my buddy once that has been on our river "DETROIT RIVER " for years , We are Canadian so we are less then 2MI to the USA at the point we got lost we ended up in the USA hahaha . Get yourself a GPS ... If I go out fishing in lake Erie I bring my little hand held GPS . I will not go if I don't have my GPS , it's way to easy to get turned around .
 

jsfinn

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Nov 26, 2003
Messages
1,093
Re: Chances of getting lost

Sonny_K9,<br /><br />Where in MD are you?
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
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Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: Chances of getting lost

Sonny K9<br />You are doing it the right way. This dumb boater did not but did surive. When you are out to sea land will not look like you expected so make sure you look back and note something to guide on.<br /><br />I took my new boat out to sea and up the coast about 25 miles to fish. It was a calm sunny day. I went with two guys who had road Party boats to the same area many times and ensured me we could find this area called Fort Ross. After about 1 hour 20 minute ride we saw what looked like 3 guys on a surf board. It turned out to be a kyack. I ask the guys if they knew how much farther to Fort Ross and they informed me We were way past it and we were at Timber cove.<br /><br />So we fished there and caught a nice limit of fish and headed back. About half way back we could see a big fog bank ahead. I was running about 1 mile off shore. Before long we were in the fog but could still see land. The farther we went the thicker it got. Soon we could not really see land but could see the white of the breaking swells as they hit land. Next we could see nothing but could hear the Buoy that is about 1 mile off shore. So we headed in on a heading I though to be right. First two times we missed and only way we could tell is by the sound of the breaking swells. Third time we made it and found the 100 yard wide channel. When we got inside the harbor the sun was out. <br /><br />That day was the day I knew I would not ever do that again. I had lots of boating experience but not in the ocean.<br /><br />What you need to be safe in the ocean Is a GPS even a cheap hand held will work but carry extra batteries. You must still have a good compass and the chart for the area. If you do not know the area you must check the chart. As an example on the trip I talk about there is a rock near Jenner called 1 mile rock. This rock is 1 mile from shore and at high tide is covered by water and can not be seen, at low tide may be 4 feet out of the water. Your GPS will not tell you that this rock is between two of your waypoints but the chart will. You should set another waypoint in your route to take you either inside this rock or outside a safe distance. Today I would not go with out a GPS, a VHF radio, a depth finder and a working Kicker motor. I also have a Loran C and will soon buy a Fixed GPS. <br /><br />Before I went I had taken the Coast Guard Aux class. Today I have taken it 3 times and even taught a class when the instructor could not make the class. I have also taken the US Power Squadrons class 3 time. <br /><br />For Basic Navigation the long (13 Week) US Power Squadrons class is the best. They teach BASIC NAVAGATION. To get questions correct you must plot a course out to a island then to a another port and then direct back to the starting port. The answers must be accurate to 2 degrees and time to with in 1 minute. All the classes are free from both groups but you must buy the training manual and work book. For the long US Power Squadrons you also buy a navigation kit. The kit contains a Parallel Rule, a Protractor, a Compass Rose, and a small chart. Good basic equipment and did not cost much. Still this is a basic class as you do not have to compensate for wind or current as in the real world. One thing the short class (9 week) does not teach is the navigation class. <br /><br />The US Coast Guard Aux also has long and short classes but they do not have a navigation week. I think they do a much better job explaining aid to navigation, Buoys, Ranges, and Lights but so much depends on which group you get. As a example for Buoys they will teach the difference between red and green, odd or even, square or tringle, informational, what the light patterns mean, how to use the chart to tell which buoy you see in the distance both day or night. Will teach you how to know your starting down a new channel. How to decide which side of the Buoy has safe water or if either side is ok. <br /><br />Out here in California for the last two years I have not been able to find the long class for Coast Guard or Power Squadron. When I ask why both said the same thing. Answer was that most people will only sign up for the short class as all they want is the Certificate to get a discount on their insurance. <br /><br />The Short class will explain basic boat saftey, what gear is required and recomended, rules of the road, how to use you radio and that you must monitor channel 16. It will talk about trailer saftey and launching, how to fuel safely and much more.<br /><br />I have enjoyed every class and learn something in each. I have meet people with tons of knowledge and experience and many with no knowledge or experience that I was able to give a lot of info. The long class are much better.
 

swist

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
678
Re: Chances of getting lost

My memories from my first times out were how visually deceiving things were compared to the charts...<br /><br />(1) The charts show low tide (actually mean lower low water), First time I went out at high tide I had no idea what I was seeing as whole pieces of the chart were gone.<br /><br />2) Depth perception is really hard when you are only a few feet off the water. And counterintuitively, can actually be worse in clear weather when everything is lit up and clear - with some haze in the air at least farther away objects will be dimmer.<br /><br />There were many occasions when I was sure I was in the wrong place because it all looked so different from the chart, but turns out I was right.<br /><br />I know everyone has GPS these days but as an old fogey I still would never rely on only one method of figuring out where I am. What happens if it fails? You need to have some minimum dead-reckoning and compass skills. It is not rocket science. After a while it becomes almost automatic - let's see I've been going 20 kts for a 1/2 hr, should be 10nm from where I started (taking a little + or - for wind/current). If your GPS is telling you something totally different, STOP and figure out where you are and why you are wrong.
 

umblecumbuz

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
1,062
Re: Chances of getting lost

You can keep track of your position most times by use of good chart and depth finder combined (following contour-lines is good training, double-checking with mounted compass. Gps is a terrific add-on, and great tutor, but never rely on it exclusively.<br /><br />Best advice of all is in one of the early posts up there - ALWAYS tell someone reliable your plans, and your expected time of return.<br /><br />Never turn your back on the sea!<br />Belt and braces!
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Chances of getting lost

Sonny – go to you local video store and rent the 1958 Spencer Tracy movie called ‘The Old Man & The Sea’ (or read the Ernest Hemingway book). Then do like everyone above recommends; take a boating class. The class is free, you meet other people starting in boating, and sometimes you get free cookies, too. :) <br /><br />Btw, I think the record for surviving adrift is about 14-months, maybe more. Three guys in on open fishing boat got caught in bad weather and blown into currents they didn’t want to be in and couldn’t get out of. They got caught in the currents going back and forth over the Mariana trench, or something like that. Two of the fisherman survived.
 

lawyertob

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
201
Re: Chances of getting lost

Originally posted by SoLittle:<br /> Well one could look to Christopher Columbus for a clue - he had no coastal charts, no GPS and no VHF radio. What he did have was experience.<br />
SoLittle,<br /><br /> I tried really hard, but in the end I just had to mention that Columbus thought he had found India, when in fact he was less than halfway there. ;) It should be noted though that he DID make it home...well, at least most of his ships did. ;) <br /><br /> As for getting lost, I usually stay in the small water...but in the middle of the lake things really start to all look the same. Tall landmarks help, but only as long as you don't go so far you can't see the landmark anymore.<br /><br />Not even $0.02 worth,<br />Joe
 

umblecumbuz

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Sep 25, 2004
Messages
1,062
Re: Chances of getting lost

... or buy 'ADRIFT' by Steve Callahan. <br /><br />Suppopsedly the only man to survive for more than one month in a small inflatable. He survived 76 days on 3 lbs of food and drifted 1800 miles across the Atlantic.<br /><br />Good read while you're fishing in the dark.
 

swist

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
678
Re: Chances of getting lost

Well one could look to Christopher Columbus for a clue - he had no coastal charts, no GPS and no VHF radio. What he did have was experience.
He did have a sextant and I'm sure very good celestial navigation skills. They still sell these things and I am told they can be quite accurate if you know how to use them (and you get a clear sky often enough). <br /><br />Having said that, in my 20 years of boating I've never seen anyone use one.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Chances of getting lost

my 20 years of boating I've never seen anyone use one.
My Grandfather, Captian Chester Dentz, knew how to use one when he was a young man and a merchant seaman. Later he ran tug boats on the Hudson for many years before becoming captain of the Circle Line tour boat in NYC until he retired.<br /><br />After he passed on in the mid 1980's, we were going through some of his charts and found a hand drawn map of the Hudson River from the Statue of Liberty up river for miles. All detail with depths, rocks, piers, docks, bridges, clearances, buoys, etc. It was done with colored pencils. Grandma told me in "those days" Grandpa had to draw the map from MEMORY as a test that took days in order to get his tug boat captains license. He was very proud of that map. <br /><br />It was not too long ago that people had to know the water they worked and not just rely on all the fancy hi-tech instrumentation we have today.<br /><br />Mark
 
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