Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

[Homerr]

Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Ok, time to buy the glass.<br /><br />This stuff comes in all kinds of thicknesses and grades. Makes my head spin reading about all of it!<br /><br />I'm replacing stringers and flooring. What type and/or thickness should I use?<br /><br />I have no idea what type is in my boat and the thickness seems to vary.<br /><br />Also, should a person try and lay a single piece across the entire stringer, or do it in multiple, or few as possible? <br /><br />I also read that the cloth isn't epoxy resin friendly. Is this true?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

if your goin' to use glass cloth to attach the stringers to the hull ( run flat then up the stringer side ) kindasorta forget it ... the glass wont cure in a 90 % right angle.. it'll separate an be a gap.. you'l have mix fillers to make THICK epoxy an trough in a fillet ( a swale ) glop on the putty then go along with a big salad spoon or old cd disk .. that way the glass has a swale to lay against.. also you don't have to completely cover the stringers in glass .. no sense if you encapsulated the stringers with epoxy.. just run cloth up the stringer sides....best cloth to use is BI-AXIAL cloth .. it's alsome & tennacious in it's what is designed for .. cut lenghts into 4 inch strips x 4 or 5 foot lenghts .. use a shorty foam roller & frame.. roll epoxy on the thirsty bi-axail get good an wet .. then apply & take a squeege to it some to knock out air bubbles .. then procede on.. overlaping the cloth an inch as you move along

 

[Homerr]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Thanks Bait.<br /><br />Your suggestions are extremely helpful!<br /><br />I'm going with the epoxy resin. What 'fillers' should I buy to mix with the epoxy?<br /><br />Also, there are so many thicknesses of glass. What thickness should I use, or does that depend on my wallet?<br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

thanks for the thanks. it helps alot that someone appreciates..to answer a forgotten ? .. some clothes are not made for epoxy ..it's the ' SIZEING ' starch for that matter.. ijust ask good before i buy .. I THINK , it's E GRADE & S GRADE IS FOR 'POXY... use slica say 70 %,, micro ballons 20 % & milled fiberglass 10 % but it's not crucsle.. mix so it's like soft peanut butter.. you'll know.. mix up the 'poxy first as normal.. say a 1/2 pint to start.. to get your feet wet.. then mix in fillers.. the fillets don't have to be perfect at all,, just do your best..the bi-axel cloth & fillers & epoxy can be all ordered at glen-l .com .... biaxial only comes in one thickness...

 

[blifsey]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Here's a link to a boat building site that has some good tutorials on epoxy and glass. Like Crab Bait said, they create fillets at 90 degree corners so the glass has nice radius to it.<br /><br /> http://www.bateau.com <br /><br />They also have supply store. If buying there isn't option for you, at least you can see what they carry and find it local.<br /><br />BL...

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

let me ask , HOMERR .. what brand of epoxy are you using an is it thick or thin type? an you should thickin'up the thin for a glue bed for glueing in the stringers than use the ' squeesh out ' for a good start for the fillet....

 

[JB]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Hey Homerr. <br /><br />How is your project coming? With all of the different threads you have running at once, it is difficult to keep track.<br /><br />Do you think you could keep them more or less together? You now have six different threads running on one problem.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

GOOD POST BL... attaboy !!!

 

[Homerr]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Sorry JB,<br /><br />I just get questions rambling through the 'ol brain and I just ask them!<br /><br />Bait,<br /><br />I haven't bought and epoxy yet. I'm trying to track down a good supplier that I can all the materials I need in one shot.<br /><br />I can't say that I've seen the epoxy in a thick or thin type. Any particular brand to reccomend?<br />Yes, I would like a good squishing of the bed. This would really help with the fillets. Good call Bait!<br /><br />I think I'm going to use 1708 biaxial tape.<br />I found it in 12" wide strips. This should tie the stringers in nicely. <br />As far as the flooring goes, 1708 is probably a bit much, but I want strength here too. Looks like the original glass was just plain mat/cloth.<br />Any suggestions for the flooring glass?<br /><br />Does anyone know how well new glass will stick to gel coat? My engine bay is coated with gel coat. I was wondering if I need to scuff it up first?<br /><br />Progress?<br /><br />I got the starboard stringers out this afternoon, and I can really see the 9 to 5 work under there. There are LOTS of voids that should have been filled. These stringers were the worst, and they literally fell apart in my hands.<br />Unfortunately I don't have a pattern to make the new ones other than the few pieces that did survive.<br />I figure I'll buy some cheap 2x4's and trim them to the countour of the bottom and then trace them onto my final stringers. <br /><br />The engine blocks were also cheezy. In the center was the main stringer followed up with 2 short pieces of wood on each side and a thin piece of plywood. The engine lags were going right into the plywood. They never screwed into the good solid wood at all! <br />There was plenty of room for the blocks of wood next to the main stringer to be moved over so the engine lags could go into them. There was no need for that plywood. I think they done this because of different engine configurations.<br /><br />The stringers are also cut down where the engine sits. They could have also saved at least 3/4 inch of trimming here as the engine mount is almost at the top of its travel. Again, probably a 'universal' stringer height for different engines.<br /><br />Sorry to all if I'm getting annoying!<br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

scuffin' gelcoat is a good thing.. scuffin' anythin' before gluing anythin' a good thing ... 12 inch wide is MAJOR over-kill.. you can cut in half ... 6 inches is still over-kill & you'll save alot on epoxy... buy only THIN ... the fillers can make thick... 7 oz cloth is perfect for floor...

 

[Homerr]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

You think so bait? <br /><br />I was reading on other posts and web sites using the 1708 biaxial. Looks like good stuff. You think the 12" is too much? These stringers are 13" high when completed. I figure running glass 6" on each side should do the trick. <br /><br />The place I think I'll order from, uscomposites.com, has a 7 1/2oz. E-Glass. This should be enough for the flooring?<br /><br />Sorry, I'm always over-killing. Especially when it comes to a boat! <br />When I think of main supports, stringers and such, going the extra mile usually doesn't hurt.<br />Although, after looking at the price sheet, OUCH! I'm open to some expert advise!<br /><br />You mentioned a mixture for the fillet material.<br />I was looking at West's 404 and 406 fillers. Can a person just buy one product like this, or should I mix it myself? All I really need the 'thick' filler for is to glue the stringers back in and fill the gaps. I may have to make a few fillets in some areas, but not all as I have left 1/2" - 1" of original glass where I took the stringers out. Also, how much filler would I really need? For example, how much filler would you use in 1 gallon of resin (typically)?<br /><br />I'm getting in the habit of thanking you Bait...<br /><br />H.

 

[Hawkeye1]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Crab bait give good advice. I will tell you how what I have found to work for me. 1 gal of epoxy will take a lot of filler. For bedding the stringers I suggest about 1/2 cup chopped 1/4 glass, and about 40 % wood flour, 40% cabsol and 20% milled fiber to each qt of epoxy. Make it about peanut butter consistancy I just used 18 gal of epoxy to repair my stringer and bed the new 12x 7 floor in. I used 1/4" luan 2 layers overlaping the seams for the floor. Used the thickend stuff to glue down the 2nd layer of luan. I used 6 lbs of maple wood flour, I think a 5 qt bag of cabsol, about 1 lb of 1/4 chopped glass and 5 qt tub of milled fiber. The 1/4" chopped glass is add 1st and allowed to wet, doesnt take but 1 min. This binds the puddy together to make it super strong. I would guess I made about 5 gal of puddy/glue and the rest went to wet out the 17/08 and coat the luan. 17/08 is thirsty stuff so is the luan. A trick i use to wet this stuff out is take your cut pieces lay them out on a level work spot lined with heavy poly plactic like 5 ot 6 mil stuff. Stack your piece, say 1' x 2' maybe 4 or 5 of them but have more ready incase you have levtover epoxy. Mix up a 32 oz batch if it works out right for the ratio and your container marking. I use the one lowes sell that are marked every 8 oz to 64Oz and are clear enough to see thru. You will need a bunch of these but you can get severial uses out of 1 of them. Leave the used brush in the bucket and when it dries you can pull the whole leftover dried epoxy mess out with the brush. I used those 3 or 4" cheap brushes. Order them with the epoxy as its cheaper them lowes. Back to the glass. after mixing the epoxy pull back the layers to the 1st one and pour some epoxy on it, lay down the next piece and repeat until all 4 ot 5 are done. Now you should have a little epoxy left in the bucket. Now take that brush and start pushing and spreading the epoxy. the un wet stuff will look white the wet will be clear. Oh lay the biaxl down mat down to do this as the massaging with the brush tends to nap up the mat side. You can pick up the layers to add more epoxy by dabbing a brush load wherever its not wetted. This should not take more then 5 min to wet out. Then peel each layer off and put it in place. try to get all the layers on 1st then go back ot the 1st one and get all the air out and straighten it up as you will have a lot more working time after you get them on one layer deep. I used those brushes and my gloved hand to move the air out from under the glass and worked pretty good. Those thin latex glove are junk. My buddy layed some blue heavy latex glove on me that work real good but I can find them, he keeps me in them so I never tried. I tried the roller but I spent more time cleaning it then doing the fg work. You will have to experiment on how much glass a batch of epoxy will wet. I ordered the med speed epoxy from uscomposites and it work well at 3-1. 24 oz resin then fill to 32 with hardner. I used the pumps the 1st 5 gal and found my mix was off a little. When I switched to those graduated buckets it worked out right on. You can be off a little and not hurt anything but try to keep it right on. I ordered my wood flour and 1/4 chopped glass from Raka.com. For some reason uscomposit doesn't carry it. They might carry the chopped glass but I had a buch left over from another project. On the 17/08 you can figure roughly 40 sqft to the gal of epoxy. I have burned about 50 gal of epoxy and a couple 1000 sq ft of 17/08, love that stuff, in the last 3 years and these are some of the things I have found to work for me. I am not a profesonal by any means, just a back yard boat guy. All this went into 3 boats with most in the last one a 1970 23' Formula. I get advice from a friend that build boats down on the outer banks. they use epoxy exclusively.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

i don't know what 406 & 404 is... but iam sure it comes in a parmajion grated cheese type can an your gonna pay out the gazoo.. you'll also need THICK for glue down floor ,too ... see how much $$$ & buy it by the 1/2 pound or lb.. from your US COMP PLACE . YOU'L USE IT.. iam gonna call it quites know..

 

[Homerr]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Whilst cleaning out the stringer 'holes', I noticed a black-ish color on the glass where the bottom of the stringers sat.<br /><br />Is this just the remnants of the water damage to the stringers?<br /><br />Should I be concerned with this before I stuff my new wood in? If so, what do I use (next to elbow grease) to get rid of it?<br /><br />Got a quote on new wood. It's gonna be about $50 a board for Kiln dried Doug Fir. At least these boards will be a solid piece unlike the originals!<br /><br />Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's help!

 

[Hooty]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

I wouldn't use any cabosil. It's not for filling,it's just for changing viscosity. It has NO physical properties. In fact, the ONLY filler Hooty would use is talc. Yep, plain ole unscented talcum powder. Real stout stuff and cheap.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty

 

[Homerr]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Plain 'ol talc eh?<br />I seen that in the 'ol catalog.<br /><br />I've used the 1/4 chopped glass before in some real 'questionable' repairs. Came out real strong.<br /><br />I just don't get the need for all these fillers and such. Can't they just make a one-shot additive? Like an over-kill filler special? LOL!<br /><br />Guess it's a way to get your $$<br /><br />H.

 

[Hooty]

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

Re: Cloth, carbon,kevlar OH MY! What glass do I use for stringer repair?

They do make a "one shot additive". It's the talc. Try to make it 50/50 by weight. Depending on the viscosity of the resin your using, it may not hold 50% talc but get in as much as you can. You'll have almost "0" shrinkage and a real tough adhesive/filler.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty