CMC Tilt & Trim

irnman1827 · May 10, 2006

Anyone have experience with these units and Force motors? If I cannot get my existing tilt and trim unit fixed, I may go with a CMC unit. My Force (90 HP) did not have the standard bolt pattern, so I had to have new holes drilled for my motor. I assume that I would have to drill holes in the CMC unit as well. Along with going back to the original holes in the boat to mount the CMC. If I have to get a new/rebuilt pump and motor for my existing unit, it would be about $500. If I have to spend that kind of money, I am leaning towards the CMC, at least I would have a new unit. I wouldn't want to go that route if they are problematic though. Thanks.

roscoe · May 10, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Most all reports on them have been positive. Panther also makes a unit.

RRitt · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

$500 is too much unless there is significant risk of seized mounting shafts and this price includes taking your old system off you boat. If that's the case, then you still have that expense no matter what you buy. once the unit is off the boat a complete rebuild should be between $150 and $300 depending on the quality of rebuild. Most of the cost is tied up in trim cylinder. The cylinder sleeve is usually corroded into place and it sucks up time and money to get it out and replace it. The typical motor & pump needs little more than thorough cleaning, de-rusting, painting, and new brushes. If the motor hasn't rusted, it probably won't even need brushes ... but what's another $8 once you've gone that far? When I rebuild those motors, I also like to address the issues of steel bolts and internal rust. Just replace the steel cap bolts with SS threaded rod and locknuts, put a 3/16" ball bearing in the brush cap, and use 3/32 orings. If it weren't for rust and water intrusion the prestolite pumps would last at least 50% longer. at any rate $500 is too much for a rebuild. should be more like $250 once the system is off boat.

RRitt · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

by the way, if you buy a CMC then I'm interested in buying your broken system. When I come across one cheaply enough I rebuild whatever is rebuildable. Over the course of time I end up with a completely rebuilt system and sell it on ebay. I only wish I could do more of them. It's almost painful to watch what people are paying for TnT systems with old o-rings.

Bry21317 · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

I have a PT130 Mounted to my Bayliner with the Force 125hp on it. I love this trim unit. It is worth the money. Overtons is where I bought mine, looks like the have them for $459, plus shipping. It was no fun to put it on. But well woth the time it took for me to mount it. I can take some pics if you need this weekend. Thanks, Bryan

RRitt · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Bry21317, If you ever come to florida and bring our boat, I'd like to see it. I bet that it's in top shape from one end to other. It is clear that your boat is "your baby". That's a completely different mentality than what I extend towards my boat. My boat's job in life is to be my reliable servant. I never neglect routine maintenance and I never abuse it, that's my half of the deal. It never breaks and always runs like new. That's his end of the deal. Nothing more, nothing less. People say my boat looks and runs like a 4-5 year old. Makes me wonder how other people treat their machines. Your boat must be sparkling. You seem to spare no expense in giving it every little trick and turn to optimize it. So if chance ever comes, I'd like to see your boat. Hey, maybe you got some pics you can post? I'd like to see how the other half lives. but - back to topic - i had some used TnTs on my boat. after a few years they started bleeding down. took them off to rebuild them. replaced them with a pair of temporary galvanized bolts, some aluminum rod, and some nylon tie wraps. after a while I couldn't figure out why I ever even had TnT in the first place. The boat gets bouncy when I hit chop with the engines trimmed up. Not hitting chop would mean being the only boat on the ocean on a calm day. That's pretty rare. What do you use your TnT for? maybe it's just my boat. maybe other boats ride just as smoothly whether engine is up or down? I've got to be missing something because I just don't understand why people make such a big deal out of tilt.

Bry21317 · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Rritt, I just like to work on it, lol. I am one of those people that will not go to out on the boat without just about any tool I might need, just in case. I have friends that go to the lake and have no clue what to do is something happens. So I am always prepared, don't want to be stranded. It is in good condition for the age. Never done anything to the outside, that does need some work and I found a soft spot in the back of the floor, which I had redone, or half-assed about 7 years ago. This was before I really knew what I was doing with it. Now it will be redone, hopefully next winter better, lol. I know alot more now than I did when I was 23 and doing it. My TNT died, and I replaced it like 2 times, once the motor and then the Trim Cylinder had gone bad. I could never get it to not leak down, so I gave in and removed it all and put the CMC PT130 on as the Tilt and Trim, I don't have the one that moves the engine up and down, but the actual Tilt and Trim, that they make. It sets the engine back about 6 inches and holds that engine up, it never will fall now, lol. I always trim up when I get rolling on the lake, my boat handles alot better, much easier to steer and better gas mileage when I trim it up. I think before with the bad trim, I could get up to about 35mph. Then once I put the CMC on I was able to get to about 42-45, depending on the load of the boat. I am hoping now once I finish making sure my engines still not running rich that I can get it back up to my 45mph and about 5k on the Rpms. I am missing about 800 rpms and trying to bring those back, so I can get my extra speed and power back. I will try to get some pics taken this weekend if I can, Just ordered a bimini top yesterday, it should be here in the morning. So I will also try to get that in the pics once I put it on. All the Vinyl was redone about 5 years ago on the inside, so it looks good. Just needs a good pain job, and some filler and it would look brand new, lol, except with a Force hangin on the back. Which I love the Force, actually. It has been one strong good running reliable engine for me. I also do the required work to it, but its never let me down in 9 years, lol. Later, Bryan

Bry21317 · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

RRitt, I will try to find my old TNT, if I can I was thinking of putting it on Ebay myself. It had some stripped threads, on the Pump, but the Trim part that goes under the Engine, in the Middle, was Brand Spankin new. No time hardly on that thing. The rest was ok, the pump worked, just the stripped threads were leaking. Will let you know if I can dig it up or not. Bryan

RRitt · May 11, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

stripped threads can be fixed by converting to bubble flares. bubble flares are designed to mate with the angle left behind by a standard drill bit. it'll never work with standard force oil lines again, but it'll work. trying to do a hack job on the existing threads might work for a while, but I would seriously doubt the long term reliability. Use 1/4" kunifer with SS tube nuts. Problem is that SS tube nuts come from race shops. But race shops won't use kunifer becuase it doesn't do well with repeated dis-assembly. On the other hand, brake shops will carry copper/nickel alloy but not SS fittings. So you have to mail order SS tube nuts from a race shop and then hand them to the brake shop people. In the end I think kunifer is better for boats than SS tube. highly resistant to salt-water corrosion and doesn't cause electrolytic corrosion to the aluminum. Which is probably the reason your threads are stripped out. you'll need 18", 18", 15", and 12" kunifer bends by hand, no special tools required. just wrap it around a broomstick.

irnman1827 · May 17, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Thanks for the replies. Am I right about having to drill new holes in the CMC unit? Thanks.

javsam · May 17, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

you may not have to.they have mounting holes/slots machine into them. cmc tries to cover all motors. they are excellent units. javsam

RRitt · May 17, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

if it were me, i'd put the force system back on. only thing wrong with it is that they used too much stainless. SS316 is one of those materials that becomes more cathodic with sea-slime. Once you get a good coating of slime on it SS3xx is devastating to aluminum alloys. Replace the SS mounting shaft with anodized aluminum and the SS oil lines with CuNi Alloy 70600 and the galvanic corrosion drops to almost nothing. CuNi tubing is $2 per foot and a 5/8x12" anodized rod is $3. It seems silly to spend hundreds when it only takes $50 to cure the majority of the force ills. Plus, if you CMC is made from a 300 series SS it'll eat up any aluminum that it contacts just as badly as the original shaft.

pippy1a · May 23, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Originally posted by irnman1827: Anyone have experience with these units and Force motors? If I cannot get my existing tilt and trim unit fixed, I may go with a CMC unit. My Force (90 HP) did not have the standard bolt pattern, so I had to have new holes drilled for my motor. I assume that I would have to drill holes in the CMC unit as well. Along with going back to the original holes in the boat to mount the CMC. If I have to get a new/rebuilt pump and motor for my existing unit, it would be about $500. If I have to spend that kind of money, I am leaning towards the CMC, at least I would have a new unit. I wouldn't want to go that route if they are problematic though. Thanks.

pippy1a · May 23, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Hey Guys i new to the site. I just installed the CMC pt130 in my 1985 bayliner trophy the old unit on he force would leak down so i bought a new unit off a 90's fresh water boat it lasted two years Just install the CMC and already love it let it sit trim up for two and half day and never drop any .Have any of you had any luck finding new decals for the out board I have not .

Bry21317 · Jul 19, 2006

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Re: CMC Tilt & Trim

Here are some Pics. I finally got my camera out last night and took a bunch of pics of the CMC PT130 Mounted. The pics are probably pretty big, so it may take a moment for them to open, they will be real slow on dial up.

Hope this helps.

You can see the 3/4" stainless steel bolt at the bottom of the engine mount. http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc1.jpg

Here is a pic of the Left side http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc2.jpg

Close up of the bolt, kinda blurry http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc3.jpg

Large view of Engine and CMC all mounted http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc4.jpg

Right side of CMC Mounted http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc5.jpg

Better view of Right Side of CMC Mounting http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc6.jpg

View of the Hole that I had to drill through the Original Transom Mount to put the Bolt in to hold the Engine under Reversing: http://www.karaoke-computers.com/bryan/cmc7.jpg

I love the unit it works perfect.

This might help someone.

CMC Tilt & Trim

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