Correct Gear Case Lube?

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
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7
Hi all, amazing what one can find on the inter-net! I?m so happy to have found this site. I may have many questions for the guru?s but for now I?m just looking for the correct type of gear case lube for my 1972 / 73 65 HP Evinrude Triumph electric shift? I have heard that if I use the wrong or incorrect lube it will short the electric shift out so am supposed to use a lube that won?t conduct electricity? Thanks in advance!

PS: I tried the search funtion but returned as no results.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Electric shift's last year was '72. So it's very important for us to know whether you have a '72 or a '73.....

Also, I don't think it has anything to do with conducting electricity. I think it's just a different viscosity which works better with the electric shift solenoids. I could be wrong though. You want Type C lubricant for electric shift units.
 

cougar1985

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Oct 7, 2005
Messages
1,023
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

double check with dealer! i was told to use premium blend fluid by dealer which i got from them .if you have tilt like i do on my 63 75-hp evinrude it uses type c tranny fluid in the system(tilt).
 

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
Messages
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Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Thanks guys for the quick response. My boat is a 1973 Century Trident, Tri-hull, but I'm not sure about the year of the 65 HP Evinrude? Seems it was in reality a 1972 but I could easily be wrong. I've had it way too long and my memory is fuzzy. It does have an electric tilt. I don't know if these numbers will be of help to determine the year or not; but are all I can offer for now.


Evinrude Triumph 65 HP 3 cyl, 2 stroke, electric shift & tilt.

Engine model number : 65273S
Serial Number: J 016370

Can the year be pin pointed with this info?
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

A quick google of the model # sure leads meto believe it's a '72.
 

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
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Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

ezmobee you guys are great. I'm off to see if I can find some typ "C" gear lube. Cougar I don't have access to a dealer. The only boat dealer/boat repair shop is in a nearby town (20 miles) and politely declined to work on my engine because of it's age. They stated they won't work on anything less than 1980. My loss.

Iam guessing I'm going to run into many more issue before I get her up and running in a mode I can feel secure in. So watch for me to return. I tried once back in 08 to get her going but ran into some real stumbling blocks. She (boat & motor) had not been run since back in "93".

I'm going to look for the correct lube while I have the battery charging.
I emptied the lube because when I trialed her back in May of "08" I couldn't get her to shift or come up on plane. Found water in the lube and was told that would short the shift! Couldn't find anybody who would replace the seal kit in the lower unit as they stated they wouldn't be able to find one and even if they did they had a policy of not working on anything less than 1980.

I found a guy in Florida who sold me a kit over the inter net and I found a boat mechanic who took my lower unit home and installed the seal kit for $ 100.00. Trouble is he couldn't crack the gear case open said it was fused/corroded? Stated he soaked it for three days in WD40 couldn't get it to budge. However he said it held 115 lbs. pressure for three days so it wasn't leaking. He replaced the upper seals in the lower unit and stated that should do me.

I'm not going to use my built in tank as it's metal. So am going temp off a 6 gal plastic until I can replace the built in. I'm afraid of the accumalation in the built in metal tank. I'm trying to get the ole gal going as I want to camp and fish with my grandsons who are getting to that great fishing age (15).

Well that's the story so thanks again guys. Sorry for the long explanation. Now hope I can find the "C" lube!

PS; Info, I did replace the water pump impeller when I trialed it in o8.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Well I certainly hope you can get it going. Is it starting and running pretty decent except for the shifting? Good luck with it. Lots of knowledgeable people here. I have also had experience with a shop that wouldn't touch the old stuff. Fortunately I have found a guy that isn't afraid of the old stuff.
 

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
Messages
7
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Hallauyah! I just found a tube of LubriMatic Premium "C" Lower unit gear lube out in my garage! Stating right at the bottom...."For Electric Shift Motors". Thant nails it. It's unopened and left from the old days!

Yes! she is/was running like a watch! That was when I first fired her up in 2008 after sitting since 1993. Though now she has sat since May of 08. Hate to ask ...anybody know how many tubes of lube it takes to fill the lower unit? Wished I could find my Evinrude book! While waiting maybe I can find something under capacities through google? Will check back here shortly.
I'm going to love this place!
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Forget all of the nonsense about the motor being too old to be of value. I have the Johnson version of your motor and use it extensively. It is very reliable and I am completely happy with it.

BTW, when I first bought it and took it to my local OMC/BRP dealer for some refurbishment, one of the head mechanics gave me the same line. The owner of the shop is a friend, however, so the "I don't want to work on it" business didn't get too far. That same mechanic has chewed up a lot of "crow" in the four years that have passed, thus far.

What you need is the modern equivalent of "Type C" gear oil. That happens to be "BRP Premium Blend" gear oil. If you can find another Type C equivalent, it should be fine, as long as it is a name brand product that can have confidence in. Also, I just called my local BRP/OMC dealer to confirm this - you can run Dextron III automatic transmission fluid in your gearbox.

The reason for using Type C equivalents, is because they act as a hydraulic fluid, hence the description of your gearcase as "hydro-electric." As was previously pointed out, your motor is that last of the hydro-elect shift units. Starting with 1973, they went to hydro-mechanical. The difference between the two, is the manner in which the poppet valves in the gearcase are controlled. In yours, electric solenoids are used, in the hydro-mechanical units, the valves are mechanically controlled.

The first thing you need to do, is to get your hands on a factory service manual. Try here at iboats first, then EBay, Ken Cook, etc., if you can't find one here. Don't waste your money on Clymer, Seloc, etc. Don't fool with the manuals on CD that you see all over the internet either - most of them are little more than bootlegged versions of the Clymer and/or Seloc manuals anyway.

You will not need a parts book, because www.shop.evinrude.com has the info (look for "parts" tab on the home page) and diagrams.

I have to get to some other things now, but will post again this evening with some info that will help you evaluate the motor, before spending money on it. In the meantime, start with a compression test. You motor would have had values of about 150 psi when new and if the powerhead is mechanically sound, may still have very high numbers. Mine was in the middle to high 140s, when I bought it.

Also, and before I forget, buy a pair of new crush washers for the vent and drain plugs, when you obtain the gear oil. Those plugs are the most common source of water in the oil, because people often don't replace them every time they remove a plug.



???
 

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
Messages
7
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Jay thanks a bunch! I drove over to the dealer/repair shop in the adjoining town, it's a Yamaha dealer. They had the Type "C" gear lube I was looking for and bought several tubes. I took my two Gear lube screws and gaskets with the idea of replacing them. The tech advised me after examining them that my gaskets were of the newer nylon and not the older compression style and were fine.

They did however advise me the ethenol fuel mix here plays havoc on the rubber in the carbs, fuel pump and elsewhere. They advised if I can find it to use what 76 brand is selling as "off road" gas. It's an unleaded, no alcohol, premium 96 or 97 octane and he said my motor will run fine on that. They stated they haven't seen much negative with the unleaded damage wise but said the alcohol in fuel was another matter. The only place selling that "off road" gas is in that town. They don't sell it here. Man is that going to be inconvienent!

I also found my original Owners manual for my engine! Now if I can get the battery charged. Find some gas that will work and I'll get to see if I've got the motor fixed or not. Fingers are crossed. You guys are a gold mine!
 

ezmobee

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Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

If you're concerned about the gas....just replace the fuel lines. The newer materials are alcohol resistant. I'm sure that "off road" gas costs more and the new fuel lines would quickly pay for themselves. Look up Marine Stabil..
 

CharGriller

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Nov 16, 2009
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Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

If you're concerned about the gas....just replace the fuel lines. The newer materials are alcohol resistant. I'm sure that "off road" gas costs more and the new fuel lines would quickly pay for themselves. Look up Marine Stabil..


Bummer....Blazers lost in overtime to Alanta. Sigh....I was hoping. The fuel lines are easily replaced but that still leaves the rubber gaskets and diaphrams in stuff like the carbs and fuel pumps. I'd be surprised if they make alcohol resistant replacements for these older motors?

The tech at Yamaha stated the alcohol stretches the rubber in the diaphrams (fuel pump?) and deteriorates the rubber in all the gaskets? Sounds like it would be cheaper to buy the premium unleaded with no alcohol than the alternative? And switching over to an alcohol resistant fuel line would be a good idea. I'm sure there will be plenty of times when I just have to use whatever fuel I can find and see where it will take me.

Most fishing here involves motoring to the fishing location to switch over to the 9.9 trolling motor(just bought a used merc 9.9 last week) , or anchoring, or fishing the shore line using the electric bow motor. So hopefully since I'm not pulling the kids on a tube or board or sking ....I'm hoping fuel consumption won't be that big an issue. I'm just guessing but suspect the rubber won't disintegrate overnite? I can't be the only one with this issue and I see folks still using these older motors. But for now...I just need to get this main motor up and running.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

I'm hoping fuel consumption won't be that big an issue. I'm just guessing but suspect the rubber won't disintegrate overnite? I can't be the only one with this issue and I see folks still using these older motors. But for now...I just need to get this main motor up and running.

Exactly. Don't worry about it. I ran a '73 for 5 years that had probably older fuel lines on it and I didn't have any issues.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
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Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Unless you live someplace that has an unusually high percentage of ethanol in the gasoline that you buy, the Yamaha guy is blowing smoke. When I bought my motor, I was stupidly busy at work, so I had my local dealer do the initial refurbishment. Among the things done to the motor were a carb rebuild, a new fuel pump and new fuel lines. That was four years ago and I have run nothing but 90% gasoline/10% corn squeezins, ever since. I have zero ethanol related problems with the motor.

What I would do on your motor, is to test the critical systems, to see what shape the motor is in. The hydro-electric motors can be great, or they can be money pits, depending on the condition of a few NLA parts.

First, check the function of the electric shift system. They are several parts in it that are NLA. One is the shift switch, located inside of the control box. If you have the Evinrude version, you have pushbutton switches for forward, neutral and reverse. There is also a neutral safety switch, which locks out the start circuit, unless the control is in neutral. Sometimes both functions will be inoperable, and sometimes only one will fail to work. I wouldn't operate my motor without a functioning neutral safety switch, but obviously, you can install a substitute switch, if you have to.

Next is the wiring harness that runs through the midsection, from the lower cowl to the gearbox.. Some remain in good shape, but they are known for becoming brittle and breaking. If yours is bad, you will either have to go on a hunt for a used one, or make your own. BTW, if yours is OK and you decide to change the water pump impeller, do not allow the gearbox to fall, when you unbolt it! This is the most common means of breaking the wires in the harness.

Finally, the lower solenoid in the gearbox is currently NLA, so you will need to make sure that it is operable.

The owner's manual that you have, isn't going to help you service your motor. You need a factory service manual.


More to follow tomorrow ....



???
 

CharGriller

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Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
7
Re: Correct Gear Case Lube?

Jay I really appreciate your thoughtful suggestions and your expertise. I?ve had this boat and motor for just a little over thirty years. I have put many, many hours on it and have always maintained it and serviced it religiously. I stored the boat & motor indoors (my garage) from 1993 to 2008. During this time lapse the local boat repair business folded . So when I went to bring my boat out of storage (May 08) and reactivate it ?I turned to an elderly friend of mine who after years (30) of working at a local plant that closed, turned to taking a course in boat mechanics in hopes of augmenting his meager retirement.

He pumped the remaining fuel from 18 gal built in metal gas tank. He replaced the existing fuel line and primer bulb bringing the gas from the tank, and in addition installed an in line fuel filter in it. He removed the lower unit and replaced the water pump impeller. Upon examination of the fuel lines connecting the three carbs he replaced one of the carb fuel lines that he thought might be a little iffy but over all still looked fine.

We hooked up an auxiliary six gallon tank with 50:1 fuel mix, attached a water hose attachment to the water cooling intake, installed a new 12v deep cycle, replaced and gapped the plugs, squirted a little bit of motor oil in the cylinders. Turned it over dry, then primed it. When I hit the key it sputtered once and fired right off. It ran just fine on the trailer this way. However when I tried it at the river ?though the motor would RPM up in neutral it could only rev up enough in forward to bring the nose of the 16 ft. tri-hull up on a steep plough. It wouldn?t power up enough to brake over on plane. Plus it didn?t seem like it was engaging correctly and the shifting was screwed up. We operated it in this mode for approx ten minutes and loaded it back up.

At home I Googled around and saw where my electric shift required a specific gear lube. When I asked my friend what he used when he replaced the old gear lube he stated it was a generic all purpose type. I then suspected that the incorrect lube was the cause of my shift issues. So I asked him to drain the lower unit and replace it with the correct lube. All the while hoping that the incorrect lube had done no permanent damage.
When he drained the lube to replace it we noted it was a whitish/grayish color indicating the lower unit had allowed water to leak into it.

So now I was faced with trying to replace the lower unit seal kit. It took me awhile but I found a mechanic in Florida via the inter-net that made me up a seal kit for my 1972 Evinrude. Even though the Yamaha dealer wouldn?t work on my engine due to it?s age , I got one of the techs to come to my house and remove the lower unit and he worked on it at his home for a hundred bucks. As of yesterday I have added the correct lower unit gear lube. I?ve found my owners manual, charged up the 12v deep cycle and am seriously thinking of taking the aux 6 gal. Tank down and just using ordinary unleaded with it?s ?whatever? generic percentage of ethanol and let the chips fall where they may? I?m anxious to see if it runs and shifts as it should. The Yamaha tech that replaced the seal kit at his home advised that having water leak into the gear case (as it did in the trial) could have cause the shifting to act up as water in the case with the lube would conduct electricity , possibly confusing the solenoids.

As to the condition of all the wiring it is what appears to be top notch condition. When you pull the cowl off the motor it appears as clean and new looking as it did in 1972. All have commented on the great condition of the old gal. All the wiring above and below looks as if it?s new. Btw there is only one electrical cord carrying two wires to the lower unit. These two wires are well protected in this tough cover as they need to be to prevent any damage when removing the lower unit. None of the wiring above or below shows any indication of cracking or deterioration.

At some point I plan on trying to remove the 18 gallon metal built in fuel tank and replacing it with a plastic equivalent. That should head off any issues with fowling the carbs with tank corrosion. Until then I?ll try to get by with an aux 6 gal tank. I am hoping there was no permanent damage done and that she will perform normally when I go trial her. So this is the long story?.sorry I know internet folks like it short.

Do you think it would be okay to fill up my six gallon tank with in town gas here and go give it a shot? Anyone else like to way in?
 
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