Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

[idonthaveaname]

I own a 1984 17? CC Proline. It?s a great all around boat that I take into back waters, canals, bays, or offshore (not too far). She is rigged for Evinrude but the motor seized (90hp). I am now in the market for a replacement outboard and can tell you the choices are daunting to say the least. The boat is in great condition so my preference is to replace everything from helm to transom including new gauges and binnacle. I have considered purchasing a pre-owned at maybe 3 or 6 years old, but starting to lean toward new with warranty, etc. I have priced (installed) another Evinrude 90 @ ~10K, a Yamaha @ ~11K, and a Suzuki @ ~8K. And then there are other options like Mercury, Honda, Nissan, Tohatsu and a few others that I have not reviewed. I heat a lot of good about most all the outboards and everyone has an opinion. I know if I switch from Evinrude the transom pattern changes as does a few other things. Granted, staying with Evinrude would work, but there are many options as you can see along with 2 stroke, 4 stroke, EFI, efficiency, the noise factor, weight, etc., as well as deciding if I should bump up to a 115hp. My head is swimming and I can't think of a better place other than here to get opinions from some of the best people around. So if you had what I have, what would you do?

Steve

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

If you are switching from a 90 two-stroke to a four stroke from anyone, I would suggest stepping up at least one HP range (115 in your case) to get the same or very close performance as the old engine. Four strokes are getting better but they still lack that low end punch and high end speed of a two stroke. The current DFI two-strokes are good choices as well so the E-tec from Evinrude would fill the bill. Obviously you could simply replace the power head for a lot less money if you were happy with the performance.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

Thanks Silvertip. I considered rebuilding the power head (all four pistons) but it was about $1200 and I could buy used and running for about that. So I sold the motor as is for $400 and that's when I began considering new. I even considered an entire (equally equipped) new boat but that was simply out of the question. A used outboard is not out of the question but one never knows what they are buying...of course new is not always the answer as well. I just want to weigh out all the options. With the advances in 2 stroke motors compared to days of old, they are a different animal--I hear a lot of good things--so I am not adverse to 2 stroke at all.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

If you don't mind used, a 2-stroke 90hp yamaha is a fine engine. It won't have as much low end torque as a v-4 evinrude, but will get great fuel mileage. I own one and love it----no problems at all. I think you could find a good one used for less than half the prices you mentioned and be very satisfied with it's reliability---if you do all the checks on it before you buy. A good one has 120 psi on all 3 cylinders among other things.
JMO,
JBJ

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

I have heard a lot of good things about Yamaha. Thanks.

 

[jrs_diesel]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

The Evinrude E-TEC is a real good one to consider. It's the only one out of the bunch that can winterize itself at the end of the season. Plus with it being a clean 2 stroke it's lightweight, easy to maintain, and has more muscle than an equivelant 4 stroke.

If you get the I-CON rigging package you'll have a electronic helm control and you can precisely dial in trolling speeds in 50 RPM increments. The engines also can interface with a NMEA 2000 network so if you have a fishfinder that is NMEA 2000 capable you'll be able to see detailed engine information on it. The ICON gauges are NMEA 2000 based as well which are really cool, and very accurate.

One last thing, the E-TECs do not rely on batteries for starting. Everything the iginition and computer systems needs for power is provided by the alternator under the flywheel. And because of that design, you can rope start it if you lose a battery or starter.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

Go down to the marina to see what everyone else is running. If you see ten of one manufacturer for every one of the others, there is usually a reason.

Locally, you can't give an E-Tec away because of the lack of support in the area. Suzuki are the choice of the commercial guys...run until they drop dead and buy new. Yamaha far out numbers all the others. There is a Yamaha dealer on just about every corner and two of them have impeccable reputations when it comers to service and support.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

I observe all the time and what I see is....

FWC (the rangers/police/etc.) use Mercury exclusively. E-Tec and Yamaha are really popular in FLA with average boaters on the salt side. Mercury is popular for bass fishermen. I hear complaints about E-Tec but not about Yamaha. Not many boaters have a Suzuki but I can tell you that the ones that do LOVE them.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

The brand doesn't matter. They are all equally good or bad. Look at the local delivered price and the reputation of the local dealer. Everyone usually has a favorite brand that they like, but the more boating experience you have the less likely you are to be locked into a brand name. There are exceptions to that of course. People who like two-stroke power are limited to Evinrude, Mercury, Nissan, Tohatsu or Yamaha.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

"but the more boating experience you have the less likely you are to be locked into a brand name."

A lot of truth there TOHATSU GURU.

 

[oldandintheway]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

sorry, cancel this post.

 

[limitout]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

just FYI the Suzuki is an evinrude (made by same company) and most parts are identicle so the bolt pattern should be the same. with the price you got I would jump on the Suzuki at $8k.

as to choices, as mentioned most salt water guys go with Yamaha and looking around the fishing ports here its 25 yamahas to every 1 other motor. they cost more but hold up better when abused and seam to not get corroded as bad as other motors if your in salt water all the time.

for fresh water it seams mercury has that locked up the same way Yamaha has salt water locked up in commercial fishermans minds.

all that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any motor you choose today but keep in mind todays engines don't "feel" as powerful and they are slower to get up to power (no hole shot) when compared to the older 2 stroke motors. they also way a lot more (way way more) so its like adding another passenger sitting on your transom so definitely go up a size or two if you don't want the boat to "feel" slower, it wont be but it will feel like driving your car in second gear the way its slow to get going.

the things I think are most important are the weight and price and the rest really isn't anything you should worry about. if you had an old evinrude 2 stroke 90 then you should get at least a 115 or 125 four stroke to replace it with

as for those new 2 strokes be aware they use air injection as well as fuel injection so that's something else that can go wrong and those air pumps are very expensive to replace. I just cant see having the same weight as 4 strokes yet have to keep oil tanks filled and be full of pollution control crap that can disable your motor if its not working right plus it is way expensive to replace those parts so I want no part of them but that's just me. but they do have a better hole shot then the four strokes.

 

[jrs_diesel]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

just FYI the Suzuki is an evinrude (made by same company) and most parts are identicle so the bolt pattern should be the same. with the price you got I would jump on the Suzuki at $8k.

Evinrude and Suzuki did team up for a while to make 4 strokes with the Evinrude name on them. That's it. Once BRP took over, they parted ways with Suzuki.

all that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any motor you choose today but keep in mind todays engines don't "feel" as powerful and they are slower to get up to power (no hole shot) when compared to the older 2 stroke motors. they also way a lot more (way way more) so its like adding another passenger sitting on your transom so definitely go up a size or two if you don't want the boat to "feel" slower, it wont be but it will feel like driving your car in second gear the way its slow to get going.

The new DI 2 strokes definitley have more power compared to the carbureted ones. Plus the DI motors run smoothly, are far better with fuel consumption, and don't leave a cloud of smoke behind them.

as for those new 2 strokes be aware they use air injection as well as fuel injection so that's something else that can go wrong and those air pumps are very expensive to replace. I just cant see having the same weight as 4 strokes yet have to keep oil tanks filled and be full of pollution control crap that can disable your motor if its not working right plus it is way expensive to replace those parts so I want no part of them but that's just me. but they do have a better hole shot then the four strokes.

For the air injection, only Mercury (Optimax) and Tohatsu (TLDI) have that feature. That is based around the Orbital injection technology. Both motors require a belt driven air compressor for the air injection side of things. Evinrude E-TECs do not have air injection whatsoever. Just a single fuel injector per cylinder. I'm not sure if Yamaha and Suzuki DI engines have air injection, but I have never heard that they do.

2 strokes are lighter, less complicated, and have more muscle than 4 strokes. All modern engines (2 and 4 stroke) can get expensive to repair.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

Great info guys! Lots of stuff where I had no idea.

jrs_diesel - You reference DI is that Suzuki? I only see DF with their models

 

[hall832]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

In the used realm, Yamaha is the stand out for me. I feel like Mercury and OMC have had to play catch up. and it would seem like like all three are pretty equal. Like i said Yamaha got it right first and everyone else decided to put out crap like the Evinrude FICTH. I have owned 6 Yamaha outboards and as long as i did the scheduled maintenance completely worry free. Mercury OptiMax has a real loyal following they really nailed down that series toward the 2002 and newer. bottom line is I get home with Yamaha.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

I see your point. When the quotes came back I was surprised to see little difference is $$ with Yamaha/Evinrude. Resell of Yamaha is much higher than Evinrude. New Suzuki is crazy cheaper. Everyone I see with a Yamaha is super pleased...but so are Suzuki owners.

 

[hall832]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

i have never owned a Suzuki, I have worked on several and they seem okay. Never heard a real huge problem. Next factor would be what support do you have where your at in South Florida. Here in Jupiter/Palm Beach I have three or four places for Yamaha. Smiling Jacks, Mariner Marine and so on. I don't know of a Suzuki Authorized dealer.

 

[jrs_diesel]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

Great info guys! Lots of stuff where I had no idea.

jrs_diesel - You reference DI is that Suzuki? I only see DF with their models

DI = Direct Injection. Wasn't referring to any particular model engine, just the technology currently used for current production 2 strokes.


Evinrude has come a long way with their direct injection technology. Some of the bad reputation Evinrude had/has is from the early days of direct injection in the late 90's with the FICHT injection system. They had bad teething problems early on with those which helped push OMC into bankruptcy in 2000. BRP (Bombardier Recreational Products) bought out OMC in 2001 and developed the Evinrude E-TECs by 2004. Thier focus with the E-TECs was DQR (Dependability, Quality, and Reliability) for the customer.

The smaller engines will frequently share parts with the larger engines (pistons/connecting rods) to make them pretty strong and tough for their size. The E-TEC will also keep running if you run out of oil in the tank or lose the oil pump somehow. It will sense that, throttle back to 1500 RPMs and will run with the oil in the crankcase for up to 5 hours to get you home. It is the only engine I know of that will do that, the other brands will do a loss of oil shutdown.

The E-TECs are also made here in the U.S. , all of them. BRP is known to stand behind their product, even when out of warranty.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

i have never owned a Suzuki, I have worked on several and they seem okay. Never heard a real huge problem. Next factor would be what support do you have where your at in South Florida. Here in Jupiter/Palm Beach I have three or four places for Yamaha. Smiling Jacks, Mariner Marine and so on. I don't know of a Suzuki Authorized dealer.

I've been talking with Palm City Yachts in Stuart. Quite a drive from my area.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Decisions, decisions... Which outboard to install??

Good points jrs_diesel.

Thanks.