Do I need to change the carrier seal?

[acevedor2]

Hey guys,
I just pulled the lower half of the outdrive to replace the impeller. This was the first time I have done it. I have owned the boat about 2 years now but have literally only taken it out 3 times due to my work schedule. I knew it was bad when I tried to take it out of winterizing this year and started it up on the muffs, and the temp went to about 200-210. Shut her down, pulled it - and found that the impeller had eaten itself (shown in the pic below.) No problem, I have a kit and can replace it, but when I pulled the impeller off, I noticed that it had heated up the plastic at the top of the carrier seal below it (pics below).

The seal does not seem to be damaged internally and I did a water test (with hose) while manually spinning the shaft and there was no water in the drive oil when I opened the drain plug. My question is - does this need to be replaced? If so, any tips on removal and replacement of the old one? Unfortunately if I decide to replace it I'll have to wait until tomorrow because the only marine shop open is West Marine and they don't have squat...

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

 

[Bt Doctur]

Just did one of those too. Personally, replace it, thoses seals are what keep water out and oil in. Should you not decide to replace it, check the fit of the SS plate . If it does not fit perfectly flat you need to replace the seal carrier. Otherwise you will be sucking air.
Just what caused it to be run without enough water?
Remove by using 2 screwdrivers or punches in the 2 holes and pry upward.

 

[acevedor2]

Just did one of those too. Personally, replace it, thoses seals are what keep water out and oil in. Should you not decide to replace it, check the fit of the SS plate . If it does not fit perfectly flat you need to replace the seal carrier. Otherwise you will be sucking air.
Just what caused it to be run without enough water?

That's what I was thinking as well. I would much rather do it all now. Only issue is finding one in stock...How hard are these to remove and is there a special tool needed? I see the two indentions in the seal that look like something would grab it.

I was the the one that ran the boat up to temp today when I started it. it was the first time it had been started this season. I probably should have changed it before even starting her this summer because I knew when I put it up for the winter that the impeller was going (it wouldn't suck up the antifreeze from the muffs via gravity feed). It would, however, run fine from the muffs on the hose so I figured I was good to start it just to get her going for the season. When the temp kept climbing today and I had no water out of the exhaust, I quickly shut here down just after it hit 175. It climbed to about 200-210 ( with the motor off) before it cooled back down. I am actually pretty frustrated because I paid to have this done a year and a half ago just after I bought the boat and it looks like they never touched it. In fact, it didn't look as if the two halves had EVER been separated....and this boat is a 2008...

Good news is that it only got to about 210 - which is not crazy hot, and it didn't stay there for very long. The motor ran strong and I am fairly certain that once I get this put back with the new seal, that it should be fine.

Again, any tips on removal or re-installation of the new carrier seal?

 

[Bt Doctur]

2 screwdriver or punches and pry upwards, it in the manual. Try not to use the "I cracked my engine using the muff method" to winterize a motor.
that ONLY WORKS IF you drain everything first, then introduce it.

 

[Bt Doctur]

2 screwdriver or punches and pry upwards, it in the manual. Try not to use the "I cracked my engine using the muff method" to winterize a motor.
that ONLY WORKS IF you drain everything first, then introduce it. lubricate the O ring and drive it back in place. I use a long section of gas pipe

 

[Bt Doctur]

When it loads go to the page with the small red squares, then click the section you need http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/14/14cover.pdf

 

[acevedor2]

2 screwdriver or punches and pry upwards, it in the manual. Try not to use the "I cracked my engine using the muff method" to winterize a motor.
that ONLY WORKS IF you drain everything first, then introduce it. lubricate the O ring and drive it back in place. I use a long section of gas pipe

Thanks! Exactly! I ended up using the draining method to winterize it and seems to have worked just fine. So in a way, it was probably a blessing that the antifreeze method via gravity feed did not work in my case, because it forced me to do it by draining the system. Which also helped me learn the system so I knew what exactly I needed to drain and the ability to find ALL of the plugs!

 

[acevedor2]

When it loads go to the page with the small red squares, then click the section you need http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/14/14cover.pdf

Thanks - have one more issue. I can't seem to get it into gear properly. Or at least I think, based on the video I saw online, that mine is not operating properly, though I don't know why. I have attached a video of the issue, but it is my understanding that when I push the shift lever forward, the gear should basically pop into place and allow the prop to only turn in one direction. Mine is not doing that. It seems as if it is locked into gear, and it is definitely turning the shaft, but it will go both directions. Is this a problem? I thought when it was in gear, it would only move in one direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MtSaebYBgwQ

 

[Bt Doctur]

without the impeller its hard to explain, but that video was normal without an impeller in place. With the impeller in place the driveshaft will not move very easily.
You move the shift arm all the way clockwise into fwd and try to turn the prop CCW. You will find it will not turn, this is normal.It will ratchet if you hold slight pressure on the shift arm.
Reverse is all the way CCW on the shift arm. the drive will now lock CW, this is normal and ratchet CCW.
Its just the opposite of how you think because the driveshaft is whats turning the prop CW for fwd.
Without an impeller hold the arm straight and the rotate the driveshaft CW.the prop turns CW. hold the arm CCW all the way, turn the driveshaft CW and the prop turns CCW for reverse.

 

[acevedor2]

without the impeller its hard to explain, but that video was normal without an impeller in place. With the impeller in place the driveshaft will not move very easily.
You move the shift arm all the way clockwise into fwd and try to turn the prop CCW. You will find it will not turn, this is normal.It will ratchet if you hold slight pressure on the shift arm.
Reverse is all the way CCW on the shift arm. the drive will now lock CW, this is normal and ratchet CCW.
Its just the opposite of how you think because the driveshaft is whats turning the prop CW for fwd.
Without an impeller hold the arm straight and the rotate the driveshaft CW.the prop turns CW. hold the arm CCW all the way, turn the driveshaft CW and the prop turns CCW for reverse.

Thanks! That's a relief. I'll be getting the carrier seal tomorrow (hopefully) and replacing it. Then I'll replace the impeller and get her installed again. Appreciate all of the help and support!

 

[acevedor2]

Ok - not sure if I have a problem or not and was hoping for some more expert advice.
- I changed the carrier seal no problem.
- I changed the impeller and reinstalled lower half no problem
- Refilled with gear lube
- started on muffs to bring to temp and check

This is where I am not sure - I started it and watched the gauge. It climbed slowly to about 125 and took 10 minutes to do so. Didn't look like it was rising very fast so I turned it off. Temp climbed to about 150 while off so i turned it back on - figuring I had no waited long enough for the T-stat to open (I believe it is a 160 t-stat). Started it again and then waited for the temp to climb. Waited about another 5 minutes with the motor on and it climbed to just shy of 175 and didn't move much from there, but there was still no water coming out of the exhaust ports. After about 5 minutes at about 170, with no water, I turned it off. The motor "dieseled" pretty good and I had to put it in gear to get her to shut off.

Even at 172 I had no water coming out of the exhaust ports. Any idea what could be wrong? Could I have reinstalled it incorrectly? If so, why isn't the temp rising faster and overtemping? I know that the temp gauge works because it worked fine the day before yesterday - that's how I knew it wasn't working properly. I took a quick video of it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DhnZSjH-ct4

 

[acevedor2]

Now that it has sat for about five minutes - off - the temp is about 220...So I am sure there is an issue - just not sure what it is. Could I have a bad T-Stat? Would it cause these issues?

 

[Bt Doctur]

water must exit the motor to cool the exaust components, even a drt motor will show exaust water after a minute or so . sounds like you missed something
with the impeller replacement

 

[acevedor2]

Ok - Was afraid of that - so even if the tstat is bad, I should see some water out of the exhaust ports? (the two closest to the transom)

 

[acevedor2]

Wanted to say thank you for the assistance. Dropped the lower half and found that I had missed the hole with the water tube. It actually caught the lip of the housing and the top was crushed when I pushed the lower unit in. Replaced the water tube and reinstalled properly. Biggest mistake I made in my opinion was that I put the water tube in the lower half and then tried to install. I should have put the water tube in the upper half and then let the plastic guide which is still in the lower half "guide" it into place. At least I know now for next time. Thanks again - can't wait to take her out this weekend!