E20 fuel

[Navy Jr.]

Has anyone heard much about E20 (ethanol) and what it's effect is on newer outboards?

Apparently there's a law, or a proposed law, that will require all gas to be E20 by August of 2013 in Minnesota. That's just five and a half years from now.

 

[sumcat1]

Re: E20 fuel

I have a new 60hp Merc Bigfoot and the owners manual says it can handle 10% alcohol. I think 15% is just around the corner. I would think Mercury would come up with kits for older engines to replace components subject to damage from higher levels of alcohol. The owners manual also makes the point that your boat's fuel system may be different.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: E20 fuel

Ethanol is like any other alcohol, it deteriorates rubber products and even some plastics. Many outboards were never intended to handle alcohol, but with some minor changes it shouldn't be a problem. Older rubber hoses, rubber carb parts and some older glass fuel tanks may need attention. The bigger problems will be with the running characteristics of alcohol vs gas. Both temperature wise and ignition timing wise.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: E20 fuel

Don't panic folks. We've used E10 in Minnesota since 1997 and my 1995 Evinrude lived on the stuff with no ill effects. E-20 is indeed coming and I suspect few if any changes will be required to post 1995 or possibly even earlier engines. Ethanol has a higher octane rating than regular fuel so tiiming will not be an issue and the new fuel will be a benefit in that regard. Fuel consumption will undoubtedly be higher since the fuel burns faster so more of it is needed. Therefore I suspect the only change if any, will be in the high speed jetting. Older engines that have run on E10 will already have been through the fuel system cleanup issues and gaskets would have already been replaced so they too should just need a jet change. Those in coastal areas or those with very large fuel tanks will undoubtedly have to deal with the condensation issue so keeping tanks full and use of fuel/water separators is essential. The net result is that if there is an anticipated issue with boats, the engine manufacturers will have retrofit kits available. If they don't you can bet the aftermarket will.

 

[Navy Jr.]

Re: E20 fuel

I guess my reason for concern is the following excerpt from the Mercury Marine website (Service and Warranty/Ethanol/Compatible with Mercury):
"E-20 has not been extensively studied by Mercury and is not acceptable for use in Mercury products."

Perhaps 5 years from now it will be extensively studied by Mercury and, like said above, there will be retro kits available.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: E20 fuel

There has been some recent lobbying regarding this issue by the marine industry. Government is taking a look at this but you and I know what that means. They look and look and look and in the end come up with an irrational solution that the marine industry will have to get their arms around. You folks in Minnesota should also know that there is a bill working it's way through that would adopt California's car emissions requirements. If that passes, you know it is only time until they implement their marine engine requirements. At this point I'm glad I just bought a new boat with a Suzy EFI 4-stroke.

 

[eipeldau]

Re: E20 fuel

Hello all,

For more than 20 years, the only gasoline you can buy in Brazil has been E20(the ethanol content actually varies from 20 to 25%, depending on the price of sugar cane in the year).
I have a new Honda, and it is exactly the same Japanese engine that is sold worldwide. No modification is made to it for being used with E20 gas. The Brazilian owner's manual just doesn't say anything about the maximum ethanol content allowed in the fuel. I know the American manual states, for the very same motor, that only 10% is allowed.
I believe the old generation of Hondas (70&80's) were not prepared at all for any ethanol. Quite a few of them had serious problems in Brazil. This new generation is prepared for SOME ethanol, which I think is a huge difference in terms of chemical resistance of the parts.
I use a fuel/water separator filter and I add Startron to the gas. The engine is 1 year old and I haven't had any problem so far. People who have 2-strokes don't usually have fuel-related problems here.

I hope this information helps you!

Henrique

 

[Woodnaut]

Re: E20 fuel

I read all of the concerns about ethanol and elastomers, and while that is a serious concern, what really worries me is a statement I have read a couple of times concerning gasoline that contains MORE than 10% ethanol. From the ethanol.org web site I read: "Avoid components made from zinc, brass, lead, ALUMINUM, or other soft metals. The ethanol fuel may cause leaching from such soft metals, which may contaminate the vehicle's fuel system and could result in poor vehicle performance." I have heard that reactivity with aluminum is not a concern at 10% ethanol, but with E85 or E80, it will be a different story.

Let's see...I think the aluminum in my boat starts at the fuel tank and ends somewhere around the propeller. I guess I could change that though if I sprung for a SST prop.....

 

[Silvertip]

Re: E20 fuel

Another misconception. My Impala runs on E-85 and last time I checked, the heads on this engine are aluminum, as are other parts in the fuel system (not sure about the fuel tank) as I haven't looked. As I mentioned, earlier, my 1995 Evinrude lived on E-10 its entire life and never missed a beat. I rebuilt the carbs about year #6 out of curiosity rather than need, and they were absolutely spotless. Remember, there are a lot of publications that print articles by people that are simply reporting what they hear. What they hear may be coming from people that I mentioned have no technical background on the topic. The real issue with E-10 when it is run in older motors is that E-10 is an excellent fuel system cleaner. Older motors that have had fuel systems that were neglected will very likely have some early fuel system problems due to the crud that gets loosened up and deposited in fuel filters and some of it can make its way into the carb. Once the carbs are rebuilt, and filters changed, the engine will run very normally. Chances are the carbs were on the verge of needing cleaning anyway -- so it is very convenient for the techs and so called experts to blame E-10 when E-10 was actually doing a service (as in cleaning the fuel system).