Electric heater problem

[Tim Frank]

1500 watt wall mount....240V.

Wiring is all fine, T/stat tests OK.
No heat.
Turning off the breaker and turning back on will "reactivate" the heater.

There is only the thermal cut-out "module" left that could be the fault.
How common is it for these to go wonky?

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Electric heater problem

When you say "reactivate" do you mean it then produces heat normally and then quits? Not sure what reactivates means in this case.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

Yes, it is an outbuilding.
In the morning the heat is often off even though the t'stat is calling for heat.
Cycle the breaker and it starts to produce heat.

 

[rbh]

Re: Electric heater problem

Tim, if the breaker keeps kicking out, replace the breaker and see what happens.

If this is in your well house and the pump is on a 220 vac circuit and you are using one leg to run the 110vac heater that can be an issue.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

The breaker is not tripping.
I'm ~ 100% sure the thermal safety switch is defective, but looking for other opinions.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

~ 100% meant "nearly" 100%....
The logistics are that the heater is 30 miles ....and a good hike.... away.
It is an intermittent problem so once the heater is working, it is tough to isolate what WAS the problem

I'll be going back with a new cut-out, but usually get constructive ideas in here.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Electric heater problem

I believe your on target Frank. Thermal overloads used to reset automatically but the standards have changed and this is no longer allowed. They have to have either a manual reset or require power to be cycled off-on to reset. It may be your fan is not working correctly or the module is defective.

 

[Tnstratofam]

Re: Electric heater problem

Depending on how old the heater is it could just be that the overlimit is weak. Like the heating elements they are constantly heating up and cooling down. However unlike heating elements the overlimit is designed to fail therefor safely shutting down the heater when there is a problem. Given enough time or improper maintenance to said heater they will start to cut out when they get some age on them. Make sure the heater is clean, if it has a fan that it is running properly and isn't shutting of prematurely. Also make sure that the heater has good airflow. Last but not least a breaker may not trip to indicate a fault if the breaker itself is going bad. Turning it off and turning back on after it has had time to cool off will allow it to run until it gets too hot and doesn't make connection internally. I would go a head and take a new breaker with me and replace it as well as the overlimit. Just to eliminate it out of the equation.. Just my two cents..

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

Thermal overloads used to reset automatically but the standards have changed and this is no longer allowed. They have to have either a manual reset or require power to be cycled off-on to reset. It may be your fan is not working correctly or the module is defective.

Bingo....really what I was looking for. The "why".
There is no fan, it's a convector style....and only a year old.

I may have to bring the t'stat to a warmer place....it's a single pole t'stat and if I get there and the heat has been off, there is no way I have figured out to test it on site...without waiting for the building to warm up.
I'll be there today and remove the t'stat and bring it home to test in a warmer spot.

It is slightly possible that it is not cutting off the heat....that may be causing the o/heat.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

Depending on how old the heater is it could just be that the overlimit is weak. Like the heating elements they are constantly heating up and cooling down. However unlike heating elements the overlimit is designed to fail therefor safely shutting down the heater when there is a problem. Given enough time or improper maintenance to said heater they will start to cut out when they get some age on them. Make sure the heater is clean, if it has a fan that it is running properly and isn't shutting of prematurely. Also make sure that the heater has good airflow. Last but not least a breaker may not trip to indicate a fault if the breaker itself is going bad. Turning it off and turning back on after it has had time to cool off will allow it to run until it gets too hot and doesn't make connection internally. I would go a head and take a new breaker with me and replace it as well as the overlimit. Just to eliminate it out of the equation.. Just my two cents..

Thanks.
There are two heaters running on this circuit....with each having its own t'stat.
The other works fine....so i believe that eliminates the breaker.

The heater is only a year old.

 

[joed]

Re: Electric heater problem

Are the two heaters the same? If they are then swap the overloads. This will determine if the overload or the heater is the problem.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

No, one is 1500 w, the other is 500W.

 

[colbyt]

Re: Electric heater problem

Thanks.
There are two heaters running on this circuit....with each having its own t'stat.
The other works fine....so i believe that eliminates the breaker.

That narrows it down to to the t-stat or the OL. My gut feeling is OL.

Surely it can't cost enough to make driving 30 miles in the winter worth the effort and expense of doing it twice.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

That narrows it down to to the t-stat or the OL. My gut feeling is OL.

Surely it can't cost enough to make driving 30 miles in the winter worth the effort and expense of doing it twice.

Absolutely! I'm there once or twice a week and am not going to make a special trip.

My biggest problem is finding the O/L.
I'm thinking 99%+ that it is the O/L, but on the remote chance that it is a problem with the stat AS WELL, I'll throw one in as well ....at present it's a single-pole and I'd rather have a 2-pole anyway.

 

[generator12]

Re: Electric heater problem

Not sure why you're not troubleshooting this with a VOM. If the wiring to each of these devices is accessible, it would be quite simple to determine which has shut down the heater before resetting it.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

Not sure why you're not troubleshooting this with a VOM. If the wiring to each of these devices is accessible, it would be quite simple to determine which has shut down the heater before resetting it.

Agreed. Simply the location and timing.
I'll be there tomorrow...with a VOM....and I'll then know exactly what the problem component is. But do I take both replacement parts? (Around here electrical items are non-refundable.) Just the cutout? etc.


First time I was there, I killed the power to take out the T'stat (I'm overly-cautious) when i turned the breaker back on the #$@% thing started throwing heat. Wasn't hanging around to see it would trip out the high-temp O/L.

I need to be there with a VOM when it has gone off....then it's a sure bet.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Electric heater problem

No, one is 1500 w, the other is 500W.

The heating elements are different Wattages but the thermal safeties may very well be the same temperatures, Too Hot is Too Hot!
It is far more common for the fan to be the problem than the thermal button switches.

If they are different, maybe the factory has them swapped and the lower temp is on the bigger heater. ???
Which heater is cutting out? The 1500w or th 500w?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Electric heater problem

The heating elements are different Wattages but the thermal safeties may very well be the same temperatures, Too Hot is Too Hot!
It is far more common for the fan to be the problem than the thermal button switches.

If they are different, maybe the factory has them swapped and the lower temp is on the bigger heater. ???
Which heater is cutting out? The 1500w or th 500w?

Was there yesterday....tested the stat....all OK.
The problem is definitely the temp O/L.
Had to order part....will be here in 2-3 days.
Thanks for all comments and advice.