Eminant domain run amuck

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Apparently the story published in the paper was in error. Here is what was published in the Housing Authority's website. You may want to read it prior to getting you panties in a wad. I always try to go to the source when I read stories like this in the papers.<br /><br />Information Regarding the Musicks' Home<br /><br />Thanks for visiting our website. We're glad to have the chance to set the record straight about the home of Thomas and Stella Musick. NRHA has never had any plans to condemn their home and take it from them. We made an offer to the Musicks to buy their home only if they want to sell it voluntarily. This was clarified for the Musicks on Dec. 1. Evidently they made an incorrect assumption when they received a letter from us. The column by Kerry Dougherty that ran in Tuesday's Virginian-Pilot, from which talkshow host Neil Boortz got his information, contained facts that were incorrect.<br /><br /> http://www.nrha.norfolk.va.us/
 

JGREGORY

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,412
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Eminent Domain was supposed to be used for the Public good. (ie road needs to be widen, realigned,intersection expanded, Building of sanitary sewr, etc) <br /><br />To do what I just read is insulting to the public to which those of us in Government serve. Planning Boards and such are supposed to look after the best interest of the town and it's citizens. Not looking out for some freinds developer business. <br /><br />And the only way to stop it is to attend the meetings, But if they are anything like what we have here no one attends. Or they wear you down like what happen out where I live but in this case it was the developer wearing down the Planning Board. :mad: :mad:
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

jgregory, there you go jumping without looking.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

A reporter looking for scandal where it doesn't exist.<br /><br />Yellow journalism in my eyes.
 

JGREGORY

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,412
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Okay, the story is not true, But my comments where on eminent domain in general. And I have seen abusses of it at times. But not Often. And I think everybody would agree that if that story was true it would be insulting to the public. Fortunatly the story is false, and also let me put in that these deals with eminent domain are very sweet. But sometimes people get a bee in their bonnet and no amount of $$$ will make them happy. Some people are chronic complainers and there is no satisfying them.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

I grew up in a family where my father was the Planning, Park and zoning administrator. Trust me the laws concerning this issue are so vague as to be meaningless. He did his best to uphold the "Spirit of the Law", but when the city and county board can strong arm and over-ride a managers decision for whatever reason, whats the point. Forced my dad to retire early but not after a 25 fight.<br /><br />Just happened down the street. You could theorheticly put a heliport in any subdivision under the statue. "If it improves access for emergency services vehicles ID can be applied." Most of the time it is greedy developers who are looking for prime property and use the government as a weapon. Yes, you can buy anything you want. <br /><br />What they did in our case is provide a reduced reaction time of about 15 seconds to three houses. But yea the property purchased for the road now has 6 new "lot for sale signs" from a certain developer. And yes you can make the arguement that these 6 lots will someday provide increased tax revenue to the city but why then should we bother to call it private property?<br /><br />Career politicians live to pad their resumes with the words "tax base employment, and community growth." Burger flip and gas station attendant jobs do not constitute Tax base employment but, just ask our city manager, they sure do. Ha Ha.<br /><br />In many cases it is just theft!!!!
 

bh357

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 12, 2003
Messages
471
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Sorry, I should have investigated this information further.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Several months ago 60 minutes had a segment on eminent domain, where the city (I'm thinking it was Buffalo, but not sure of that) wanted a private developer to build some expensive condos, which would increase the tax base, and increase the revenue to the city.<br /><br />There were a few single family home property owners that did not want to sell, and the city imposed eminent domain to force them to sell so they could go ahead with the project.<br /><br />Apparently they had the legal authority to do it.<br /><br />So this is not without precedent, it seems, according to 60 minutes, at least.
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

A City, County, or State cannot just impose one anyone they want. If they take a property through immenent domain it is with a lawsuit. This means that both sides get to be heard in court by a judge. The judge is the one who decides the merits of the case. The reasons for taking a property through imminent domain are very narrow.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

wvit100,<br /><br />Question, who pays for the lawyers. Most of the wealthy have good lawyers and money to pay for them, they also have the political clout to prevent the issue from arising.<br /><br />Those who don't have the money to hire a lawyer, how exactly does that suit make it to court? Therefor it never makes the radar screen. As I stated earlier, the statues are so vague as to encompass anything. One of the reasons in my hometown was it would make snow removal easier. Yep, that was good enough. Narrow, not hardly.
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

When a government entity claims imminent domain and condemns a persons property they file a suit with the courts for the condemnation. At the time they file the suit they must also deposit with the court the amount of the appraisel of the property's worth. This appraisel must be done by a certified appraiser, not by a government employee.<br /><br />If the property owner wants to fight the appraised value of the property then the property owner would hire an attorney. The usual arrangement is that the attorney would get 1/3 of any settlement over the amount of the initial appraisel.<br /><br />If the government takes the property without going through condemnation first it is called and inverse condemnation. In that case the property owner would hire an attorney and sue the government for taking their property. In that case the government would be liable for both the value of the property and the attorney's fees.<br /><br />If the property owner wants to sue based on the validity of the condemnation, ie. he says that the government does not have the right to condemn his property under imminent domain, and he wins his suit then the government would be liable for any damages that he had incured on the property plus his attorney's fees.<br /><br />This is usually, or should be, all spelled out in the contract the the property owner signs with his attorney beforehand.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

I am with you on most of the process. It is my understanding that city will first make an offer, if accepted end of story. If they move for condemnation then a suit is filed. I don't believe that Johnny Cochran would take the case under the situation you discribe. You will need to pay a good lawyer on a per hour basis to get the best representation.<br /><br />In the political heirarchy I would put the City Attorney, followed by the city engineer followed by dept. heads. City engineers they like nice straight lines, easier to set in water sewer etc, and they can defend almost anything under the heading of that which enhances the "health, safety and public welfare" of the city. Hence it is easy to invoke ED. Very difficult to defend the loss of community, loss of land value, loss of a view, block safety based on increased traffic, you get the picture. Therefor the deck is stacked against someone who is a landowner. Then if you do go to court and lose, the city can beat you down with sewer and water curb and gutter assessments that makes that land too expensive to own and force the sale on the back side at a far depreciated price. Often many people take the first offer and fold their cards based on the potential expense that can be incurred if they lose.<br /><br />The benevolent government is succeptable to all the vices that power in any arena spauns. <br /><br />It is also my understanding that the landowner provides an assessment of value as does the city and the judge can also request a third. Once again, how can you stop something that would provide a savings of 15seconds for service vehicles, which meets the Health saftey and public wellfare arguement, with the loss of private private property rights. Thats right, political connections and money. Name a local developer who doesn't know the city engineer by his first name. It's a stacked deck.<br /><br />It has a place but at least where I live I see abuses of it frequently.
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

I guess "abuse" depends on which side of the fence you sit on. City's grow and nothing stays the same. People want to hold onto what they have and resist change but change happens regardless. The City I live in now, Charlotte, has about 350,000 people. In 2050 that number is expected to be over 1,000,000. I would wager that nothing will look the same at that time and that most of the properties will have changed. I live outside of Charlotte along a road that 5 years ago only had about 10 houses. The hayfield that was beside me is now being turned into a subdivision and the wooded area behind me is being built on. I wish it would stay the same as it was but I knew this was coming. Is it progress? I don't know, but I do know that it is inevitable.
 

cggcpa1

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
75
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Eminent Domain...now they are using it to take land from folks to build a Wal Mart in Alabaster, Alabama. Wal Mart...a necessity for the public good? Hummmmm
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,786
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Local gov'ts have been using eminent domain as a deal making - tax base raising tool. It has happened in several locations that I am aware of.<br /><br />In Wausau WI, about 5 homeowners took the offer, 3 fought it. "Good for the city" was the city's argument. The city won. Down they came. Up went a new Home Depot.<br /><br />There was lots of other land available within a 2 mile radius. But it seems that Home Depot wanted to be located next to their competition.<br /><br />If the land was so valuable to Home Depot, then the homeowners should have been compensated for it accordingly. But no, they were only paid what their homes were appraised at.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

I agree with you. But growth in your case is for the private sector to work out and not the role of government to enter with the heavy hand to push forward. ED is necessary to meet a very narrowly defined set of circumstances. Community devolopment isn't one that should fall under this heading. Thats all I am trying to say. It is unfortunate that this statue is so frequently used. I also know that every person who owns a tin shack thinks that their property is worth a million bucks, and for that arbitration is necessary, but the strong arm tactics I have witnessed have made me very suspicious of my local government. Perfect example: the road that I am referring to was bought at the assessed value, the land for the new High School built at the same time and owned by a developer, fetched 3 times the assessed value of the land. And because he only gave up a specific percentage of the property, now is putting in gas stations, fast food, and all that crap, and the land in now worth 10 times what it was 5 years ago. ?????????? :mad: :mad: :mad: <br /><br />Engineers are good at roads and the like but not very good at understanding the personal and community dynamics that occur based on their one size fits all mentality. Not all are bad but not all are good.<br /><br />Take er easy and have a great weekend. :)
 

FLATHEAD

Captain
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
3,530
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

Here is one for ya. The school district I work for took a guys farm by emanate domain so they could build a second high school. This farm was in his family for decades, and he was none to happy about the whole deal. To make a long story short eventually there was a change of school board members and the new board shot the idea of a second high school down. What do you think happened next. You got it!! A big housing development went in. Now with the additional housing we could really use the second school. AH yes bureaucracy at its best,, the little guy always gets burnt. The district was not allowed to make a profit off the sale to the developer as per that law, but the bottom line is a guy got screwed for no reason at all.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Eminant domain run amuck

duudes<br /> after fighting dare county and the town of kitty hawk for years we stopped an emminet domain on our property for a water line. the assesed tax value is tiny compared to the actual value. that is where our lawyer stopped them last time. we are going to sell before the next. its the last 23 acres of a plot my great grandfather bought in the 1800's. I hate to leave but I cannot afford to fight. I will enjoy living back in north central TX where private rights are still observed. not like the ding yankees that took over here. they hated where they where then brought it all with them. my dog was poisioned last week by an a55 that is placing bait to kill coons. he is such a moron, typical yankee. move to the country then kill off all the critters.<br /> sorry if I seem biased but my part of the world has spiraled downhill in the past 10 years by greedy land speculators.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 
Top