Ethanol?

[FreeBeeTony]

I just read an article in todays newspaper about the use of ethanol. It is supposed to replace MTBE in gasoline because MTBE is a hazzard to drinking water, ethanol is a corn-based product and will be mixed with gasoline to help prevent pollution. This is what I have read thus far. The article also said that the ethanol will seperate from the gasoline after time and will ruin the fuel, so the gasoline and ethanol will be mixed just before being delivered to the distributors (gas stations). <br /><br />Being the boating fanatic that I am, I am wondering how this seperation of the fuel will effect the storage of my boat next year!<br /><br />Has anyone else heard anything about this? Right now I think its being used in California and Chicago. NY and Conn are supposed to start using it starting Jan 1, 2004!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ethanol?

hello<br /> ethanol is great stuff<br /> evan williams, Jack danials maybe a touch of santa teresa rum from 1796. but it sucks in a boat fuel system. causes a lot of problems. ethanol also eats at rubber just not as fast as methanol. the big problems arise in strorage. water and gasoline form acids that eat aluminium. and as long as you mixing shaking and stirring the water ethanol mix is ok. if you let it sit for a week the water will fall out of solution. ( any kid that ever watered down dads liqor knows this. thats why ya gotta keep the old mans liqur shook )<br />guys with carbs hate the ethanol/gasoline mix. it will suspend water long enough to get it past the water seperator but it wil fall out of solution in the carb, then the problems start.<br />good luck and try not to run any altered fuels

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Ethanol?

With all due respect, I think Rodbolt's data is dated. We overcame the separation problems with ethanol fuels here in the midwest years ago. Gas stations found it difficult to "shake" the in-ground tanks once a week.<br /><br />I have been using ethanol fuel for more than 10 years in three different boats and have never had a fuel-related problem.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Ethanol?

All i've ever heard about ethanol in gasoline is that it is fine as long as it is used regularly. Don't let it sit for months on end in your tank. If you are a busy boater, all is well. If not, stay away from it.

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Ethanol?

Agree with Cobra.<br /><br />Other points---if the fuel was crap before they dumped in the ethanol, it will still be crap.<br /><br />I buy fuel from only two suppliers---BP (all hail the former Standard Oil conglomerate) and a local Farm Supply cooperative that was a true pioneer in ethanol-fuel research in the 70s and 80s.<br /><br />The ethanol blend I buy runs close to 90 octane, which all my boat motors really seem to like. I never have any run-on or detonation problems.

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: Ethanol?

So what about winter storage? What if you store your boat for 6 months out of the year? <br />Here's a stupid question: If the fuel does seperate while in storage, can it be remixed when removed from storage?

 

[kdmiller8251]

Re: Ethanol?

Is this why we put fuel stabilizer in the gas for winter months?<br /><br />I was in the military in the late 80's, we would go overseas for 6months at a time and leave our cars sitting. No one ever stabilized the fuel, and no one ever had problems,Fuel related, when coming back. <br /><br />Whats the difference now? I know ethanol was not in the fuels back then as much...

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Ethanol?

For winter storage, I put Stabil in everything--boats, mowers, chain saw, motorcycle, weed wacker, the dog's water bowl, etc..<br /><br />I also leave about a 1/4 tank of room in the I/O gas tank to fill up with fresh fuel next spring. Some say this can cause condensation by not filling the tank all the way, but I've never had a problem. Throw in a can of Heet, fill with gresh gas, and go.<br /><br />I run the entire tank of old stuff out in one day on the first spring trip and refill with fresh gas.

 

[Capt. T]

Re: Ethanol?

Read the labels on HEET (both versions) you will find ethanol and/or isopropyl. I've used both for years instead of Stabil. Much cheaper has & worked fine.<br /><br />Off topic: the only real problem with ethanol is that it take 70% more energy to grow, harvest and process the corn in to ethanol than you recover by burning it Great for corn farmers but not a viable long term strategy.

 

[gss036]

Re: Ethanol?

I am no expert on fuel, but will throw in my 2 cents, maybe not be worth that much though. If you are running 2 stroke engines, check the owners book/manual. My Mercury owners book says that I should not use gasoline with alcohol in it. It must eat at the seals or something??<br />I know a lot of boaters out this way that stay away from the AM/PM stations because most use ARCO gas and they put a lot of alcohol in thier gas and usually post it on the pumps.

 

[merc 140 pontoon]

Re: Ethanol?

From Mercruiser Service Bulletin 94-4:<br /><br />Note 2: If gasoline with alcohol must be used, periodically inspect complete fuel system for leaks and do not store fuel in boat’s fuel tank for long periods of time.<br /><br />From Merc SB 95-7:<br /><br />f. Ether and Ethanol can cause deterioration of some plastics and rubber products. MerCruiser products produced after 1987 should not have any problems. Products produced before that time should have the fuel system components inspected regularly for leaks and/or deterioration.<br /><br />h. Ethanol and any water that is in the fuel tank will separate from the gasoline and sink to the bottom of the tank if left setting over a long period of time. To prevent this, drain all fuel systems before storing. Add a gasoline stabilizer to the fuel tank (after draining).<br /><br />i. Ethanol changes how temperature affects the fuel. In cooler weather, it can cause hard starting. In the late spring and summer when temperatures get hotter, it can cause vapor locking.<br /><br />The ethanol or the ethers used in these new reformulated gasolines are not something that is new. Both have been around several years. If you follow the information that has been put out into the field by Mercury Marine, other marine engine manufactures and the automotive industry over the last few years concerning the use of fuels containing alcohol, problems should be kept at a minimum.<br /><br />This information is 8 years old. Automobiles turn over their fuel quickly enough to avoid separation. It's possible that separation has been "cured", but I haven't seen any documentation of that. Also, fuels back in the 80's and early 90's, in my experience, had better shelf lives than fuels today.<br /><br />These SB's are available here:<br /><br /> http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/94/94_04.pdf <br /> http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/95/95_07.pdf <br /> http://www.boatfix.com/merc/mainmenu.pdf <br /><br />Steve

 

[edwardh1]

Re: Ethanol?

why use it at all in your boat or car if you can get pure gasolene?????????????

 

[merc 140 pontoon]

Re: Ethanol?

"Pure gasoline" reminds me of "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."<br /><br />Anyway, in a lot of urban areas the only gas sold is reformulated gas. I personally drive about 20 miles to the next county to buy real gas for the boat.<br /><br />Steve

 

[BigDiesel]

Re: Ethanol?

Ddboater: *ROFL* Even in the dog's water bowl, huh? Now that's an endorsement!!!!!

 

[Regalrunner]

Re: Ethanol?

Ddboater Yep...The dog bowl got me too.

 

[MrBill]

Re: Ethanol?

Ethanol is an alcohol-based fuel that can be produced from a number of crops, including corn. Ethanol increases octane and improves emissions when added to gasoline. When ethanol is blended with gasoline the mixture is usually called an E-blend, such as E10 meaning 10% ethanol. E10 blends have been around in many parts of the county for over twenty years.<br /><br />Commonly, it has been said that an ethanol blend up to 10% can be used in most automotive engines, but I personally notice a difference and would not recommend it based on the few times that I have tried it. You'd be surprised though how many new vehicles can run on E-blends as high as E85. Some Chrysler 2.7 liter engines, Dodge Ram P/U 4.7 liter engines, Ford Explorers and Merc Mountaineers with the 4.0 liter, 6 cyl engine, and many other Ford, GM and foreign vehicles.<br /><br />Regarding the use of ethanol in boats, particularly in New England where our season is so short that a routine break-down may mean the loss of 20% of the season, I'll stick to 100% gasoline until manufacturers specify an ethanol fuel. I simply would not introduce another variable to save a few cents per gallon.

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: Ethanol?

At this point, its not a matter of saving money, but what if this is all that's available?

 

[Walt T]

Re: Ethanol?

If you buy your gas outside of non attainment areas it will most likely be non oxygenated gas. A non attainment area is usually a major metro area such as Denver and surrounding areas, or Los Angeles and suburbs, Phoenix, and other large cities. Non attainment means they exceed EPA standards for air quality and therefore must take measures to improve air quality. That's why you have vehicles that if registered in the metro areas must be emission tested, yet those registered in other parts of the same state do not have to be tested. Outside of those areas are not required to supply oxygenated gasoline. Fill your boat outside of a non attainment area and you most likely wont get mixed gas. A lot of lakes are out in rural areas that are not required to supply oxygenated fuel. Therefore you may not even have a problem. Even in non attainment areas they may not be required to supply oxygenated fuels in the summer, only in the winter. That's because in the winter cold air inversions take place which traps polluted air close tot he ground and increases the number of violation days. All oxygenated fuels do is help to decrease carbon monoxide levels by adding more oxygen to the combustion process in the hopes that extra molecules of oxygen will combine with the CO (Carbon Monoxide) molecules to make CO2. (Carbon Dioxide). <br />All gaskets in all fuel systems two and four stroke, automotive, industrial, and marine are made to be alcohol fuels compliant since 1987. <br />Alcohol does not do well in hot weather as it has a lower flash point and turns into a vapor at a lower tempurature than gasoline does. A gallon of alcohol contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline. This is why alcohol oxy fuels are generally not used in the summer. The problems also is is that service stations don't remove those little labels on their pumps in the summer so you dont really know for sure if you are getting oxy gas or not.<br />Here is some information: EPA

 

[vidar]

Re: Ethanol?

HI! the biggest proob is that if you premix and that alcohol absorbs water it separates and sinks... yoour motor runs but gets only alcohol w water and no oil cause oil and water separates...and goes thru separator also...so dont let it sit for long time..in a 4stroke (car ib ob) its seldom a prob..if engiine has o2 sensr fuel managment system it juust give more fuel to make it go..... but 2strokes NEED the oil....

 

[edwardh1]

Re: Ethanol?

one of the M?C service bulletins or the owners manual cautions against ethanol above some limit-- 8%??