Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

[KRH1326]

I am still breaking in my 351W.

I have developed A ticking (definately valve train) that begins around 2000+ rpms., then smoke and a light oil escape from my breather on the port valve cover. Not copious amounts, just enough smoke to see, and a sporadic dripping.

The PCV valve is on my starboard valve cover. It is new and functioning.

I cannot reach WOT rpms. I can only get to 2500-3000.

I am not the original owner by far. When I got it, I tore down the block, and rebuilt with all new parts. It was obvious that prior to my getting it, it had suffered some minor water damage to a couple of cylinders, as there was a little pitting. I honed all cylinders out nice with a good cross hatch. New rings.

Because I still have to, and I am having this trouble, I plan on opening up both covers and re-torquing the rockers, as well as the heads.

I dont have adjustable rockers, just hydrolic lifters. I hope I find a few have shook loose. please please please....

After, if I still have this issue, I plan on comp test and leak-down test.

Is it possible for valve train issues to give excessive blowby, and hopefully not neccessarily ring/ cylinder issues?

Just want to ask the guru's if I am on the right track.
Ken

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

I am heading to the mooring to work on this very soon.

Any input before I head out?

 

[lime4x4]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

maybe the rings didn't seat yet

 

[danond]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

You didn't mention your break-in procedure. Loose rocker arms are a common cause of ticking on new engines. Your blow-by sounds like rings.

 

[danond]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

If when you're assembling the rockers you don't have the valves in the right place you can mess up the adjustment on hydraulic rockers, too and get a bunch of ticking. I've done it. :redface:

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Hi All,

Just got back. Had some family issues arise, so I did not get the chance to do everything that I wanted to get done. I did oil change and filter to 10w-30. Engine seemed to sound different, not so much better, but different right off the bat. I popped off the port valve cover and spun the engine to see all rockers moving. Nothing seemed amiss, but I did retorque them, and some did get some extra turns. I was about to retorque the head, when I had to head in.
For breaking in, I am pretty hand cuffed. The harbor that I am moored in, is a fairly good run to the bay, and it is all no wake. So after I warm up, I have to putt out for about 15-20 mins. I keep varying my rpms, but range is limited heading out, and in, because of local police boats and GC. I don't need the grief. Once I hit the bay, I throttle up slowly, in steps to get to a plane. From there I run around like a sightseer, but keep moving the throttle around to vary the rpms. Keep this up for an hour or so, then putt back in. I do let it idle at mooring a little, then row back in.
The rebuild was just a DIY garage job. I got the boat for free on Craigslist. I found signs of water damage, as I wrote earlier. I do not believe that it was from cooling water. When I looked down the carb throat, nothing but rust, as whoever had it sitting for years, left the engine exposed with no flame arrester or any kind of cover whatsoever. The cylinders that had intake valves open during this time had some rust and pitting.
I bought a 351w engine ring and bearing kit (and brass freeze plugs) and started tear down. I found that someone had worked on this before, as there were nice 40-over aluminum pistons and all the rod caps and mains were already number stamped for me. As far as the heads, that was where I was slacking, maybe paying for it now. I stripped them down and was very anal about keeping the rod, to rocker, to valve straight to go back the exact same location. I lapped the valves and seats and buffed and polished all stems. I boiled the heads in antifreeze ( wife will still not use her turkey deep fry rig to this day) and really cleaned them up good. I couldn't fit the block in, so I had to settle for pressure washer with the red tip, right up the wazoo. All rods and stems rolled nice on my steel table.
My whole thing at the time was, I had limited funds, and I didn't even know if the engine runs. Nobody wants to polish a turd! I checked the block deck and head face with steel square and didn't find anything amiss with this crude method. I didn't have the cash for a milling anyway, plus the block was already bored. Why? What had happened? Yeah maybe when I was a teenager, bombing around in my old pick up truck, I would want to squeeze for CID, but in this application? So I had no milling done and that was it for the heads.
I just wanted to get the thing running to see what I got. Maybe I want to get another running block and build it up right soup to nuts.
I did use a high volume oil pump, I forget what make. I think it might have been Federal-Mogul. Ironically, I had this in my shop, for years. I had bought it for one of my pick ups. I am getting 40-50 psi. The oil level is right on. And I definately put the tray back in. Had to hammer those little rivets and took a few to the thumb. I am certain I put it back in, so is my thumb.

Ken

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Any ideas Fellas?

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Is the use of a high volume oil pump not recommended in this app?

 

[rbh]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

lets try this again as my connection went down.
if my memory serves me right, which it does occasionally, you have to set your valves first while the engines running, you tighten down the valves one at a time till it bogs then back off a quarter turn? I do not remember the sequence or if its the intake or exaust so look it up. As well I think to seat the rings you have to run the motor under load at about 2000+/- rpm for 10 to 20 minutes (I think?)
as for the 40 thou over, this could be a little more than the blocks cylinder walls will handle as they are not that thick.
rob

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

The rockers are non adjustable. They get tightened down untill the ball makes contact, then torqued to spec. ( i forgot the real number, book and tools are out on boat, but I think it was 20 something, off the top of my head.) Then suggested retorquing when retorquing heads.

Dear old Dad is sitting outside with his dog, and his beer, and talking about backing them all off, turning the engine by hand and making sure that the current cyl has the cam and valves closed, then tightening down reguardless of torque untill the rod will just spin with finger pressure, no end to end play.

Isn't that how you do "solid" lifters, not hydr?

 

[rbh]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

I really have to read these things twice, I was under the impression that it was hyd.
good luck
rob

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

No, that is right, they are hydrolic lifters. Please continue your input.

 

[flargin]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Have you ever had this thing running? is it possible the guy before you did some work and adjusted the geometry? i.e. if the heads/block was milled, you have to get correct lenght lifters, if he did not, your valves may never actually be closing resulting in lousy compression and a lot of lifter noise ect.

Did you mic the holes, did you have the correct pistons/rings? if not easy to have blowby.

Another thought is fuel delivery, if you have an inconsistant fuel delivery you can cycle between ok and lean, resulting in a lot of beating and churning.

did you check compression? I would be willing to bet they are all over the board. If it is ring seals or valves would have to be tested out.

not much ford knowledge, but hope generic info helps.

Good luck.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

That is the dark thought that is haunting my sleep. I have no idea what anyone prior to me has done. I got the boat from distant relatives of a now deceased gentleman, that had begun the restoration. They had no clue what was or wasn't done.

Once I saw the rusted out intake and knew that it sat uncovered, I peeked into all the plug holes and found the few with rust, and decided that to try to fire it would lead to nothing good, so I pulled it, and broke her down.

I didn't even know about the 40 overs untill I pulled the pistons and said , what's that 40 stamped into these forged pistons. Why are the rod and main caps number stamped?

I have never been able to get over 3000 rpm under load. In nuetral she can scream.

I used a new fuel pump, changed the filters frequently. Purged the tank several times removed the screen at the pick up tube and installed an industrial canister screen right at tank. I have steady presure to carb , miniscule vac at tank.

Once I finnish retorqing the heads and checking the other rockers, compression test and if I can rig it, leak down to follow.

 

[rbh]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

hey just keep thinking positive, you just rebuilt it, so work with the KISS principle in mind (keep it simple stupid) this being said the engine runs although poor, back track and work from A-Z
you will find your problem.
rob

 

[flargin]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

I don't know if I saw it, but I would start with the basics.

1. compression test, dry.
2. Reconfirm your timing, bring #1 to TDC (hand crank, air blowing out = coming to top dead center), you can stop at 10* BTDC and manually confirm your distributor. - if it is off a tooth, your timing may be ~ 25* off.
3. Reconfirm your plug wires, correct firing order


That takes care of 2 of the three biggies (Compression, Ignition). Fuel delivery is the next critical. any idea on the carbs, rebuilt? new? or nothing done with them?

Agreed, this is usually frustrating, but you need to take it one step at a time to isolate your problems.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Carb is a fresh rebuild ( by a pro, not me) of holley 4 bbl list # 7163, which is what came on many 351's . Though I have no clue what specifically came on this 1976 235 hp.

When I did assembly, I tdc # 1 made timing gears align, and set distributor. I put the damper on, marked the pin, put damper in vise and filed in a nice double line. Filled with white paint. Used a protractor and layed out 10 btc and filed and painted a single line.

Here I get confused, If I put the dizzy in, say even one tooth off, I can roll the dizzy to get back on the marks, isn't that adjusting the timing? If it is one tooth off it is just rolled a little bit cw or ccw from where it would be if i wasn't off a tooth, right?

 

[flargin]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Here I get confused, If I put the dizzy in, say even one tooth off, I can roll the dizzy to get back on the marks, isn't that adjusting the timing? If it is one tooth off it is just rolled a little bit cw or ccw from where it would be if i wasn't off a tooth, right?

Well it is a continuous circle, so functionally the numbers will continue to roll off in the correct firing order, so that does not matter, roll it back the 25 degrees and it will work.

However, it sounds like you are using your timing marks to determine timing, for this situation you will be approximately 25* off your TDC line. For example, if your tooth is one off, and you set the timing to 10btdc, you actually have set your timing to approximatly 15 Atdc. Does that make sense? (if the other way 40* BTDC)

I am a pretty focused and detailed guy, and I can tell you I have messed up some element.(torque, fittings, senors (not many on a boat) Dist at compression stroke vs Exhaust stroke, dist alignment, plug wires). I was SURE i was right only to realize I was wrong.

Problem solving is best when you take some form of focused, methodical walk through your problem, slowly isolating until it is found.

You went back and confirmed torque, so move through the build cycle. check the basics.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

A couple of things jump out at me, maybe it's the high volume oil pump? and, or, maybe it's the valve guides, or seals? What kind of valve seals did you use?

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Excessive Blowby with high rpm ticking

Yeah, I understand the approach. Pick a spot and move, one thing at a time.
It has been pouring rain, plus wife works nights, I work days, I have the 3 little ones to look after from when I get home from work till midnight.

So I get to sit here and pick everyone's brain, get 1000 great ideas and things to check, spend the rest of the week pondering, second guessing, supposing... then Saturday morning, run like a madman down to the harbor and try to get it all in. Saturday morning, I swear, I can row out in my pram on a plane, come Sunday evening, I'm lucky if I can make it back in.

Thanks guys.

PS I can't remember the name brand of the valve seals. They were rubber, bright orange, and at least on the port side that I have already opened up, they were all still tight and seated and in place.

PPS- What is the deal with running a high volume oil pump? I am not a boat ace, but I have build and run several old Ford pick ups from teens into 40's, a high volume pump has always helped my blocks, how does it hurt my boat? I just figured that boat and truck, both deal with close to similar demands.