Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

MassillonBuckeye

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1978 Mercy 70HP motor. Is that an "Operators guide"? Telling me the difference between Tilt and Trim? Is there a difference? There seems to be only two controls. Up and Down. The terminology is confusing me a bit here. I understand the pricipals regarding the angle of the motor in relation to the boat and pushing it through the water, so I know adjusting that angle while underway can have an effect. I also know that some boats Only have Tilt. Just for trailering etc or adjusting while stopped. Anyone else care to clarify a bit? Thank you!
 

Bondo

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Telling me the difference between Tilt and Trim?

Ayuh,.... Trim is anywhere the motor is adjusted to, While underway....

Tilt is any setting Above trim...
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Ayuh,.... Trim is anywhere the motor is adjusted to, While underway....

Tilt is any setting Above trim...

Gotcha. So I'm assuming this 1978 70HP motor has Trim capabilities. I'm looking for an operators manual. Is most of the available in the operators manual included in the service manuals? Or are there two or more separate documents?
 

79Merc80

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Depending on the boat, but most ski/pleasure boats I have driven tend to like this.

When on plane and cruising, look behind the boat at the start of the wake/Rooster Tail (The beginning of the "V" of the wake. When trimming up, you should see the propwash (The turbulant area of water directly behind the boat). As you trim the outboard/outdrive up, you will see this propwash begin to migrate forward twards that "V" of the wake. I have found that most boats (Pleasure and ski) handle best with the propwash at or just behind that "V" of the wake. Now, the power trim/tilt you have (Pre 1984) is the first generation with the pump mounted inside the boat and the pressure lines running to the external rams. That system didn't have a different speed for trim and tilt, and most didn't come with a gauge. That's why I always went on how the boat handles and then take a look at the propwash and wake.

I would suggest expirimenting with it. When the prop ventelates and starts to rev up without any speed increase, you have gone too far and need to bring it back down to get a bite on the water. Other than that, it's pretty much a boat hull design/load/water condition thing and will change almost every time you take the boat out.

Hope this helps.

Craig
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Absolutely. Thank you for the insight.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

A 1978 Merc that has power trim/tilt, will trim under full power all the way up. Newer OBs will only trim up a small amount under power. On the Merc, there was a trim limit switch that would stop the trim when the triple clamp was starting to leave the confines of the transom bracket. You then neede to push a second button to trim the motor all the way up.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

some OB's have power trim with 2 pins that slowly lift the motor about 4" and then a larger hydraulic, looking like a shock absorber kicks in and lifts the motor all the way and quickly (tilt). The first is the trim and the second is the tilt. However, in shallow water (and low speed, of course) you can run the motor at the tilt level, off the trim pins.

Some OB's just have one large hydraulic (tilt) that serves both functions. Typically the larger motors (70+) have the trim and tilt, due to greater force agains them while running; smaller motors (<50) just have the tilt.

I've never seen a boat with PTT and seperate buttons for the trim and tilt; usually you just go straight from one to the other. Not to say they didn't make them but what a bad idea.
 

Don S

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

The 78 Mercury 70 hp motors did not have power trim and tilt. Didn't happen until 1980.
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

The 78 Mercury 70 hp motors did not have power trim and tilt. Didn't happen until 1980.

Well my 1978 700 (70HP) definitely has hydraulics which raise and lower the motor very nicely. Merc 700EL serial# starting with 4827***. There is a switch control in the front of boat, at the console and in the rear. Has 1 cylinder on each side and a big pump in one of the compartments in the rear.
Sorry for blurry pic:
IMG_0299.JPG


Should I oil or grease those rams there? The shiny part? The hydraulic hoses are going to need replaced, they are dry rotten pretty bad. Havent busted but.. Sorry for my limited knowledge of this motor. I appreciate the help :)
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

looks like an after-market add-on; there are several of those around. Usually, like yours, the workings are beside the motor, not under it.

So for parts and info you need the make/model/number of that unit.

Can't say whether it would work as a trim as well as a tilt.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

My '77 Merc 1500 had the PTT unit exactly as Massillon has. It was factory installed as the model was 1500EXLPT. The transom bracket on my 1500 was the same as my '73 850, so you could have installed PTT on it as well. I do not know if you could have gotten a '73 850EXLPT however.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

yes, and the PTT units of that vintage had just the two trim cylinders and they were strong enough to trim all the way out of the water, when the motor was at full throttle.
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

starcraft%2520021.jpg


starcraft%2520014.jpg


starcraft%2520016.jpg


Yeah, I'm not sure this is aftermarket. The drive shaft housing is designed for the pistons. Its also part of the transom bracket. I'm uploading more pictures.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Maissillon, The PTT unit you have is a Merc factory unit. It may have been fitted to the motor you have after some years. The Inline sizes of 1978 had PTT (unit like yours) from the factory.

Your middle picture shows the trim limit switch adjustment.
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Maissillon, The PTT unit you have is a Merc factory unit. It may have been fitted to the motor you have after some years. The Inline sizes of 1978 had PTT (unit like yours) from the factory.

Your middle picture shows the trim limit switch adjustment.

Ahh I see. Well that talks to one of my main questions here. That trim limit switch adjustment is missing on the other side. What does this do exactly? And how do I find parts like this missing stuff, maybe a rebuild lit and hoses? That you for the replies.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Massillon, There is only one trim limit switch, on the starboard side. The original PTT control panel had three buttons. The lowest button trimmed/tilted the motor down. The middle button trimmed the motor up until the trim limit switch opened. Pushing the middle and top button together trimmed the motor all the way up.

The trim limit switches frequently broke. Normally we would then just use both buttons for all trim/tilt functions, or bypass the trim limit switch.
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Massillon, There is only one trim limit switch, on the starboard side. The original PTT control panel had three buttons. The lowest button trimmed/tilted the motor down. The middle button trimmed the motor up until the trim limit switch opened. Pushing the middle and top button together trimmed the motor all the way up.

The trim limit switches frequently broke. Normally we would then just use both buttons for all trim/tilt functions, or bypass the trim limit switch.

How about parts for my unit? What am I looking for? Need hoses and maybe an o-ring set. One is already a bit leaky and I'm not sure if its coming from the rotted hose or a fitting at this point. But since the lines are rotted, I figure I'd start there.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

When I checked last the hoses are avail at the crowleymarine web site. There are orings on each side of the aluminium plate sandwiched between the control valve and the pump/resevoir. I would think these could be from any source. There used to be trim cylinder rebuild kits with Orings and the teflon piston seal. The teflon piston seal requires a special tool to install, however, the cylinder liner is removeable so you can unbolt the piston and leave it in the liner. Then you can replace the balance of the oring seals.

The weak link was the threads where the trim cylinder hose bolts on. Be real careful with those connections.
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

When I checked last the hoses are avail at the crowleymarine web site. There are orings on each side of the aluminium plate sandwiched between the control valve and the pump/resevoir. I would think these could be from any source. There used to be trim cylinder rebuild kits with Orings and the teflon piston seal. The teflon piston seal requires a special tool to install, however, the cylinder liner is removeable so you can unbolt the piston and leave it in the liner. Then you can replace the balance of the oring seals.

The weak link was the threads where the trim cylinder hose bolts on. Be real careful with those connections.

Thank you for the info. Whenever I look up my motor year and model, it doesn't show this system so I'm still unsure what I'm looking for. A larger HP model from same year the same thing? Actually, I believe I've found it. Thank you! :)
 

MassillonBuckeye

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Re: Explain "tilt and trim" or tell me what I have please.

Still trying to find parts for this thing. Can anyone help? Worked great all season so far but it's starting to sound like it needs some fluid. I don't see any leaks around the cylinders so it must be where the hoses connect to the pump? And it's leaking into the hull. I can't really tell other than it's a bit oily at the base of the pump. I haven't disconnected the pump to flip it over though. I may also be interested in fixing that trim limit switch. The adjustment screw is complete rusted though and I'll have to cut it off. Thanks for any replies :)
 
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