First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

[drlmg]

Hello,

I am looking to get my first boat. I am having trouble finding useful information RE boats. I would like a boat that I can use for both fishing and long trips (saltwater). I would very much appreciate any advice I could get.

Two specific boats I have looked at (in classifieds, not physically looked) are a 1989 Luhrs Tournament 400 Convertible and a 2002 Carver 404 Sedan Bridge Sport Fisherman. I can buy the Luhrs outright, would have to borrow for the Carver.

I have read that Luhrs was not a very good boat prior to some time in mid to late 90's. I have also read that Carver was not as much a boat as a RV on water. I don't know what to think.

What I like so far.....

I like several of the Hatteras but they are quite expensive. Others that I like are Sea Ray, Mainship, Trojan, Viking, and Silverton.

I would like a 36ft. to about a 44ft. I like convertibles with upper and lower helms. However, I am seeing more and more trawlers that I really like. I think I would like a diesel engines.

QUESTIONS...... In your opinion...

Diesel vs. gas...... specific engines that are good / bad? I have read about a certain Cat diesel that is unreliable.


Trawler vs. cruiser

What type hull.... shape and material, I have seen some trawlers with a wooden hull. Are wooden hulls high maintenance?

Cruising speed and max speed..... what is the average reasonable speed I would be going? I imagine over a certain speed - (depending on the size, weight, hull shape, etc.). - it would be very rough. But, lets say I want to go to Costa Rica, is that feasible?

Is there a manufacturer I can trust that pretty much any boat they make is a good one or on the other hand pretty much whatever they make is crap?

I have only driven a few small boats, can I just get in a 44 foot boat and go without doing something stupid and tearing it up? I won't attempt it without full electronics that shows depth and topography.... I would be afraid of ripping the bottom out or running up on a reef.

Any good web sites, books, etc. that I can study to learn about saltwater boating?



If you read this I am sure you can see I am a complete novice. Please share your knowledge, I want to know all I can whether it is what I want to hear or not.

Thank You,

drlmg

 

[CaptainSkip]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

A boat surveyor might be a big help before you buy. How well a boat is maintained makes a big difference. There could be costly unseen problems and to have a trained eye look it over and report any potential problems would be money well spent. There is plenty of educational information on line if you start typing in anything you want to look up. Also there's local boating classes you might look into by the Coast Guard and/or Power Squadron. Trawlers are nice, they are slow compared to a sport fisherman or cruiser. Not that I need to be in a hurry. I like all 3 styles and that's a tough decision. Good Luck!

 

[scoutabout]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

Welcome!

Also consider contacting a yacht broker to walk you through the options. Be aware of course they will be wanting to sell you something they have but if you visit a couple you could will begin to get a sense of which manufacturers offer the kinds of boats you are interested in and what kinds of boat and hull types there are. And as mentioned, the kind of experience you have on the water can be much different depending on the type of boat and hull you choose.

Do you want the ability to get there fast, up on plane, gulping fuel at a significant rate? Or are you content to burble along at 9 knots in a full displacement trawler, sipping diesel, relaxing in a big salon, but taking all day to cover any significant ground?

There are also modified hulls that try to give a little of both worlds.

If boats this size are new to you I'd also say a boat handling course is a must. Or at least find someone who can show you how to handle something of that size. You may end up with something that has dual engines, bow thrusters, trim tabs and all manner of systems that will help or hinder steerage, depending on your ability to use those systems.

Also consider that - up to a point - how a boat has been maintained can far outweigh what the initial quality out of the yard was like. You mentioned wood. And while I love wooden boats, they have the potential to require much more maintenance and huge expense if you have to recondition a wood hull.

As for trawlers...don't buy anything without checking out Grand Banks. Like this GB 36. If the divorce wasn't going to cost me more than the boat I'd be on her or something like her tomorrow...

Have fun and post pics! We looooove pics!

 

[26aftcab454]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

unfortunately- no one boat does everything GREAT.-you may find trawler too slow or not equipped for fishing-- sportfisher burns too much fuel-My advise would be to charter the type of boat you are interested in and see what fits your needs. do not be in a big rush to buy- find out what suits you.This is the place to ask questions.
Diesel is more torque- long lasting - more efficient, less moving parts.
Gas is higher HP at higher RPMs.
Most ocean going boats that size for long range cruising are diesel.
Good luck and I hope you find the boat to fit your needs.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

A friend had a 46' Grogan trawler--great boat. Ran all summer on a tank of diesel. Slow and comfortable.
Would not be a good fishing boat; for fishing you need speed to get to the fishing grounds. With a trawler you do not have the option of going fast. With a sport fisher you have the option of going slow.
Good comment on Carvers (and similar designs) being floating RV's. Never appealled to me for that reason.
To fish, you need a low transom and open deck in the stern. So rule out aft cabins and high seating aft decks.
Since you say you are a novice, you really need to go out on some different boats. Charter a day fishing. Be realistic about how much fishing, and what kind, you will do (and factor in the big price tag for gear). Consider who will be helping you at the docks and while cruising.
Also consider your home area's water depths (trawlers run deep) and weather (as to closed in, curtains, or open designs) and need to be time efficient on your cruising.

 

[Ned L]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

The questions you have asked could fill about four books. That aside, as has been said, you need to figure what you want. The problems with Luhrs actually dates to the early 1970's, when the company wasn't owned by the Luhrs family (could get into details). The Luhrs group builds a good solid boat that is a good value (Silverton, Mainship, Luhrs, & Hunter). You have mentioned other names that run the full range from top end boats, to boats I wouldn't bother with, again you need to get out there, figure out what you are interested in, and what kind of boat will best suit you interests. - There's a big difference between a Hatteras and a Carver!
Is there a big difference in maintenance between wood and glass? - That depends, ... In short, the easy answer is yes. That said, in order to keep them both in top condition there is a considerable amount involved in each (probably less difference than most realize). I think the real difference comes in that glass can be basically ignored and it won't go down-hill so fast. Wood does require that things be done regularly or there will be issues.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

You have a big decision on your hands and only you will know the boat that's right for you.
Every response that you will read here has merit as every persons story is different. I had the same questions you do regarding which to purchase. My rationale was (if any of these apply to you):

Gas v. diesel - I went gas. A few reasons include fuel costs (at the time) and maintenance issues. Diesel was more expensive and repairs to diesel engines can cost triple what a gas engine would need. I can work on gas engines, I know crap about diesels. Also, most of my trips are easy on the engines and only one long trip per year. If you are into long trips all of the time, or constantly working the engines, you may need diesels. One replacement long block gas engine is around $5000. A diesel is around $12000.

Trawler v. Planing hull. I went with the v-hull. I like the luxury feel of the trawler settled in the water. Very smooth and stable. I also like the ability of getting on a plane at 26 knots if I have to outrun a storm. I can go slow with either vessel, but I can get both out of my hull. The down side to this is burning 32 gals per hour at that speed

Hatteras/Luhrs/Carver/etc. - I can't speak for any of the other models except for Carver. I read all of the reports that are out there on Carvers and what I found was that these were "look nice, but lower craftsmanship" until early/mid 1990's (please, no smack talk...I'm not putting any one's boat down). The Carver I bought was a 2001 374 Convertible. This is a 2 stateroom single head layout. It has an open aft cockpit, which I like, but I thought I would use it more. Now I wish I had an aft cabin (more interior room). I also only have a flybridge helm. I wish I had one in the saloon as well. it gets lonely up there all alone when the family is inside...although sometimes it's a good thing

The thing that sold the Carver for me was the maintenance. The boat had low hours and was maintained very well. All records in place. Also very easy for me to work on as well. Some people only want the top name brands, but I have been keeping up on a story on another site about a Bertram thats sitting on the bottom due to delamination. Basically, what I'm trying to get across is that there is more to the boat than just the name. There are exceptions to every rule and good boats have sunk while some "poorly" constructed boats are still seeing daily use.

Find what looks like it can do most of the things that you want it to do. Are you going to fish every week? Cruise every week and fish monthly? Screw fishing and stay at the dock? Whatever you choose, you'll always find something that may be missing. Either way, though...you're still out on the boat!

Best of luck. post pics of what you bought!

 

[drlmg]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

Thank you all for the replies to my post. They are all very helpful. I will post to this thread as I progress toward getting a boat. Thank you again to all who replied so far. I hope the long relentless list of my confused thoughts didn't bore anyone to tears or a push them into a nervous breakdown.

Thank you,

drlmg

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

If you decide to lean toward a trawler, get a subscription to Passage Maker magazine. Also, there's a website called www.setsail.com that has a huge amount of information about traveling the world by boat. The site does not have the most user friendly layout, but it's fascinating reading.

 

[RickJ6956]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

Fireman, I agree with everything you said about Carver. Mine's an '87, and I'm told the main reason they had a bad reputation is because they used wooden stringers under the glass until the early 90's. The surveyor told me that mine was showing no signs of weakness, however.

drlmg, my 32-foot Carver aft cabin is a fixer-upper stepping stone to a larger craft. It is indeed a floating RV. It is packed with amenities -- all the comforts of home -- plus dual helms. But I wouldn't trust it in more than 3- or 4-foot waves, and I certainly wouldn't attempt to motor it to Costa Rica.


Here's what it looks like - same model & year.

 

[fishdog4449]

Re: First Boat Advice...... Trawler?

There are several "main" types of vessels in that size range. Trawlers, such as the Grand Banks classic series are very good on fuel and have many amenities and alot of interior room. Express models are usually used as sportfishing boat and have a flared bow, planing hull, tuna tower, and open cockpit. They are usually quite speedy (20-40knots WOT..some are faster) but will use diesel like it's no ones business. Tiara and other manufacturers make an "open" model that's a cross between an express, convertible, and a trawler. Some good brands are Ocean, Tiara, Hatteras, Grand Banks, etc. However with larger boats, how it's maintained is far more important than it's original quality.
But, if your going to buy a boat that size anyway, get one with DIESELS preferably Yanmar or Detroits and a diesel generator. Gas engines, for the money, are not as reliable as diesel and will use more fuel.


31' Bertram. This is great example of a boat optimized for fishing ONLY.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3996/sirina.jpg

43' Tiara Open. Crossover, has some amenities (genset, shower, head, kitchen, A/C) but open cockpit...we've added lots of rod holders and outriggers..looks kinda funny but gets the job done
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/820/aboutface.png
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7770/dsc01913w.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4139/aboutface2.jpg

43' Grand Banks Classic. 100% trawler, wot 12 knots.
http://img227.imageshack.us/i/dscn0305n.jpg/

These are all boats capable of many many miles offshore in the right weather. I wouldn't buy anythign less capable, you will get bored with 40 footer having to stay inland...

Also, unless you have alot of experience with this size of craft I would recommend classes or have an experienced skipper take you out a few times. The theory behind twin-screw craft handling is relatively simple, but it needs to be instinct. You don't want to have to think about rudder lift and port and stbd when you have to pivot a 40'er in a 45 foot square area in 20 knots of wind You also want to be familiar with all your boats systems...electrical, hydraulic, engine, transmission, etc and it's safety features. Navigation is a must too, get paper charts for your area as well as radar or gps.