For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

[Texasmark]

The last couple of days I have been on a nostalgic acquisition caper and stumbled upon something I found interesting.

Back in the 1949 era, the documentation I discovered (www.wizardoutboardforum.com) said that the oil ratio for one of the small Wizard engines (Western Auto sold, built my Merc) was 1 qt/gallon of standard automotive SAE 30 oil.....I don't think HD oil existed at that time....I calculate that to be 4:1...............GASP!!!!!!!

Then by 1955 they were at "3/8 qt/gallon" of the same SAE 30 recommendation, but I think HD had entered the circuit by then........10.7:1....still on the Wizard spec page.

The site also shows a (pint I think) can of 2 cycle oil (newly developed), but the timeline wasn't dated.

Then we get into the 24:l which was the ratio when I was growing up and you probably know the rest of the story......if you don't someone will be on here to finish what I started.

Spark plugs listed for that were J6J and the J6J is just a standard plug with a short electrode and the tip did not protrude beyond the shell. I remember using them when I was a kid so they survived the oil basting for a long time in the marine environment.
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I had one of the 4 cyl Wizard 25's when I was a teen on my first boat and engine purchase; used boat, new engine. I wasn't happy with the performance, sold it and replaced it with an 18 Evinrude which I bought new in 1957 ($400). Performance on my boat was about the same with the rude having a slight edge......trying to water ski behind it......learn to water ski that is.

Was wondering why and wanted the specs of each so I was looking around for an answer, which I found....that's when I saw the oil ratios used over the years and thought you might get a kick out of it. One thing the site said was that the 25 was rated at 2500 rpm. I think that was a misprint. The 25 was very similar to the Merc Mark 30 at 30 hp but sure didn't act like one (as I had one of them 15 or so years later on a 14' Mirrorcraft alum).
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Just found it interesting just how far the industry has come.

Mark

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Early outboard engines used plain bearings on the rod, thus needed a rich oil mixture for lubrication. When engineering designs started usinf (in Mercury language) "Fully jeweled power" ie. rollers and needle bearings--then oil mixtures started to lean out.

Look at most older model airplane engines: They have plain bearing rods and use someplace around 20% oil. But, it is not a fair comparison since these engines also turn more than 10,000 RPM

 

[achris]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

I have a 'OS' model airplane engine that uses a 3.3:1 mix. The fuel is methanol and the oil is castor oil. The engine is 0.1 cu in (1.6cc). Plain bearing, no piston ring, and runs at up to 16,000rpm ...


Chris.......

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Basically giving these old babies an oil bath eh !!!
Don't stand next to the exhaust and decarb every other week.
Used to have a small motorcycle that ran on 20 to 1 and decarbed it about once a month to keep the performance up to par.

 

[JimS123]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

The last couple of days I have been on a nostalgic acquisition caper and stumbled upon something I found interesting.

Back in the 1949 era, the documentation I discovered (www.wizardoutboardforum.com) said that the oil ratio for one of the small Wizard engines (Western Auto sold, built my Merc) was 1 qt/gallon of standard automotive SAE 30 oil.....I don't think HD oil existed at that time....I calculate that to be 4:1...............GASP!!!!!!!

Then by 1955 they were at "3/8 qt/gallon" of the same SAE 30 recommendation, but I think HD had entered the circuit by then........10.7:1....still on the Wizard spec page.

The site also shows a (pint I think) can of 2 cycle oil (newly developed), but the timeline wasn't dated.

Then we get into the 24:l which was the ratio when I was growing up and you probably know the rest of the story......if you don't someone will be on here to finish what I started.

Spark plugs listed for that were J6J and the J6J is just a standard plug with a short electrode and the tip did not protrude beyond the shell. I remember using them when I was a kid so they survived the oil basting for a long time in the marine environment.
--------------
I had one of the 4 cyl Wizard 25's when I was a teen on my first boat and engine purchase; used boat, new engine. I wasn't happy with the performance, sold it and replaced it with an 18 Evinrude which I bought new in 1957 ($400). Performance on my boat was about the same with the rude having a slight edge......trying to water ski behind it......learn to water ski that is.

Was wondering why and wanted the specs of each so I was looking around for an answer, which I found....that's when I saw the oil ratios used over the years and thought you might get a kick out of it. One thing the site said was that the 25 was rated at 2500 rpm. I think that was a misprint. The 25 was very similar to the Merc Mark 30 at 30 hp but sure didn't act like one (as I had one of them 15 or so years later on a 14' Mirrorcraft alum).
---------------
Just found it interesting just how far the industry has come.

Mark

Smoky for sure.....I LOVE the smell, wouldn't own a 4-stroke....LOL. Brings back too many good memories.

But go check your figures again. Oil usage was specified in pints per gal not quarts. The oldies used 16:1, 24:1 in the late '40s and '50's and 50:1 in the 1960's. I believe 8:1 was about the highest they ever went.

My 1955 Wizard Super 10 specified 1 quart per 6 gallons. I sold the motor long ago, but still have the owners manual.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Well Mr. Jim, I showed you my source of information. I was not there in the beginning so I don't know. I do know about the quart/6 gallons in the late 50's and on. I was there for that and I remember using regular SAE 30 before there was such a thing as OB oil. Later on I remember using Amalie "Better than it has to be" but I don't remember if that was regular oil or after 2 cycle oil came into being.

And achris, I had several of those too (model airplanes)but they used a glow plug and funny, castor oil burned really clean. I think the largest I had was a "35" and forget the brand. I remember I used to tote around this humongous 1.5 volt, round Everyready battery with this special clip on it that fit right on the top of the plug.....I hated that time in my life. I'd spend countless hours building a beautiful plane only to go out and crash it on the first couple of flights. Finally I got smart and quit....started smoking pot........naw. Ha!

Mark

 

[achris]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Mark,

Model airplane engines.... There was only two makers who used the engine size as a the model of the engine. One was OS, so your '35' was 0.35cu in (5.7cc). Mine was an OS10 (1.6cc). The other was, I think, Cox, and they made the '049' (0.8cc)

I also crashed mine plenty... My father got smart and got some white maranti wood for me.... Don't know how many times I crashed that sucker after that, but I always just picked it up and flow it again. I made a mistake when I rebuilt it... I included a bigger fuel tank and made a few improvements to the aerodynamics... Went from a 30 mph plane to a 70mph plane.... When you're flying a 35' circle (line control)... that's a serious dizzy time!!! And with the bigger fuel tank... Vomit comet time! I learned to 'power land' real good.

Chris.......
(I still have the plane, and all the gear needed to fly it. That's sad!)

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Wrong! K&B .40, Dooling .29, McCoy .29 and .60 (originally the only engine to use in control line carrier competition), Rossi .60 (10cc) Fox .36X, .15 Cox .049, .010 (smallest engine ever made, 20,000 RPM) Veco .19 etc, etc, etc. All these were designated by size--I added the decimal point . And they are just the ones I can think of in the first 30 seconds.

 

[JimS123]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Well Mr. Jim, I showed you my source of information.

Mark

Yes, after reading your post I reviewed your source as well. I always want to learn things. Not to be argumentative, but the Wizard link you posted said 1 pint per gallon, not 1 quart.

 

[steelespike]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

The Wizard WA25 was based on the Merc MK 30 which was rated at 5,400.
MK30 Was also only 29.78 cubes compared to the Evindude/Johnson 30 hp rated at
4,500 with 35.7 cubes.I think thats 20% more displacement.I'm guessing the WA25 needed to be propped carefully or it could be pretty gutless especially at the low end. I think the E/J 35.7 cube is noted for its low end grunt.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

The Wizard WA25 was based on the Merc MK 30 which was rated at 5,400.
MK30 Was also only 29.78 cubes compared to the Evindude/Johnson 30 hp rated at
4,500 with 35.7 cubes.I think thats 20% more displacement.I'm guessing the WA25 needed to be propped carefully or it could be pretty gutless especially at the low end. I think the E/J 35.7 cube is noted for its low end grunt.

That's the way I see it. I didn't know what made OMC's OMC's at the time, but it was obviously cubes which Merc obviously didn't have.....had to get the rpm's to get the hp and obviously when you are grunting, you aren't up there in rpm's. OMC's were king of the roost when I was growing up. Don't know why I bought the Wizard; possibly because there was a WA store close to the house and I'd look in the window and dream about having an engine like that.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

Yes, after reading your post I reviewed your source as well. I always want to learn things. Not to be argumentative, but the Wizard link you posted said 1 pint per gallon, not 1 quart.

Funny, I just went back through the Wizard spec sheets and I don't see the 1 quart per gallon now either. Matter of fact most of what I just saw was 3/4 pt. per gallon (back in the f1940's time frame)......which makes a heck of a lot more sense. I didn't make it up. I did visit a lot of old OB www's the other morning and I can assure you I read 1 qt per gallon somewhere. But anyway, things have drastically improved over the years.

Sorry for the disinformation. Seems to be getting to be a habit of mine lately.

Mark

 

[Grumman59]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

My Yamaha 8hp uses 100:1, not too bad. My Johnson 9.9 uses 50:1

When I was a kid, I remember using 16:1 mix for my two-stoke motorcycles.

The worst mix was the fuel I used to make for my model diesel airplane engines. 1/3 ether, 1/3 kerosene and 1/3 SAE30 motor oil.

 

[JimS123]

Re: For all you folks choking on 2 stroke smoke.

The oldest motor in my collection is a 1919 Rowboat Motor. It was Ole Evinrude's first - a Model A. It has a neat way to measure the oil. The gas cap has a small container attached to the bottom of it. You put 3 "capfulls" of oil in the tank, then add 1 gallon of gas. The books say its 8:1.